Our letter this week comes from Andrea, who's recovering from her marriage to a narcissist. She wrote to me wanting to know more about these men, and how she can keep from finding herself in a relationship with one again.
Here's her story:
Hi Jane,
Could you write some information on narcissists?
I realized when I was 42 years old that my father is a text book case narcissist. I grew up in a crazy household due to his narcissism and watched my parents have a toxic marriage.
They are still married. (Don’t ask me why except that my mom has been so beaten down and destroyed emotionally by him for so many years that, at the age of 70, she stays.) She truly is a prisoner living with him.
His narcissism has gotten worse as he has aged too. I learned in my college years to handle him by distancing myself from him because he is so toxic.
After growing up in a crazy household, I swore to myself, I would never marry someone like my father and thought I didn’t, until my husband of 15 years left me in December 2015 for a woman 10 years older. (We were both 41 at the time. This woman was 51, married, and had 2 teenage daughters.)
When I found out about his affair, I found out he had at least 2 other affairs while we were married. I actually believe there were more women throughout the years, but can’t drive myself crazy trying to pinpoint them all.
After all that happened while married to him, I have come to realize my ex-husband was a narcissist too, but on a different spectrum than my father. I have looked back and little red flags popped up over the years during our marriage, but when I questioned him, of course he smoothed things over and I believed him to a certain extent.
Deep down, I always had a feeling he had cheated, but wasn’t sure until it all came out in 2015.
When he left in Dec 2015 and moved in immediately with the other woman, it was the craziest roller coaster ride - from December 2015 until our divorce was finalized in May 2017. I saw him act like someone I had never seen before and true narcissistic behaviors were fully visible.
It was so crazy and painful, I couldn’t wait to cut ties with him.
We did not have children, so there has been no contact with him since our divorce was finalized. My life has truly been peaceful since getting rid of him. My relationship with God has been strengthened from this, which is one of the many positives that resulted from all of this.
I still believe in love and marriage & really hope to find the man that God wants me to spend the rest of my life with. How do I learn to trust myself and my judgment again after something like this?
Any information you can provide on narcissism and how a victim recovers from it would be helpful.
Thank you,
-Andrea
My response:
My heart goes out to you, Andrea. What a history you've had, how familiar and comfortable you became growing up with these types of men. And yes, what a personal rollercoaster ride you’ve been through!
I’m so glad you can see some positive things that have come out of this, like the peace that comes from finally letting someone like this go, like a stronger spiritual faith that allows you to hope again.
As much as it hurts to see someone reveal themselves to you like this, it’s nothing compared to the confirmation it gives you that you made the right decision.
It helps to understand that narcissism, at its most basic level, is about unmet needs.
When someone comes to adulthood carrying with them the wounds of so many unmet needs, left over from a childhood where they weren't allowed to have those needs because they didn't have anyone with the capacity to actually meet them, those needs don’t go away; they get bigger.
As adults, the people who are still carrying around these unmet needs from childhood exact their revenge on anyone they can – and especially anyone who represents the ones who withheld those needs from them, or worse, shamed them for having needs in the first place.
This is one of the reasons in particular that there are men who secretly have some major - albeit subconscious - problems with women, no matter how much they profess to love them, simply because they had a mother (or primary caregiver who represented a mother figure) who either controlled them - disguising it as love, or withheld love altogether.
This is also why there’s rarely anything you can say or do to change someone’s mind by simply loving them, because they will only believe this kind of love is just like the kind they were previously deceived with; controlling and manipulative no matter how loving you try to be.
The problem is we’ve been so conditioned to keep on loving even when someone treats us badly, even when they punish us by withholding love or giving us the silent treatment, or gaslighting us by projecting their own deep insecurities onto us while taking advantage of our goodness and propensity to be guilted or shamed into taking all the blame.
As much as the label of narcissism helps us to understand just how real our experience with someone like this is, we need to also understand our experience is more than just a label.
He’s a real person. He’s someone who had enough good qualities for you to be attracted to him in the first place. Simply focusing on how you couldn’t have seen him for who he was all along only only serves to keep us questioning ourselves and being way too hard on ourselves in the process.
In the very beginning, a narcissist presents himself like the perfect guy. He’s had so much experience pouring on the charm, pulling out all the stops, it’s hard for any woman to resist this type of man, and especially those of us who’ve been fed the long-embedded fairytale of the sensitive man behind the surface, charming, charismatic exterior who simply needs to be loved well enough to bring out the kind of love he shows us he has the potential for.
It's what keeps us trying, doing everything we can to be more of what he wants us to be, until it comes to a crashing end as he's either torn away every shred of our dignity and self-respect as we lose ourselves in focusing all of our energies on him, drained of anything left for ourselves, or we walk away while there's still something left of us, heartbroken and feeling betrayed.
Either way, it's always painful and heartbreaking and so revealing of what was underneath all along. When his anger is unleashed against us for ironically what he feels WE did to HIM, we see a side of him we'd never have believed could be this bad.
And yet herein lies our recovery, Andrea, since it's because of what we see when it finally ends that allows us to have that confirmation of who he really is and how much we need to trust ourselves early on.
For those of us who give so much and seek to understand the sensitive man at all costs - even if it costs us so much of ourselves- we have to come to terms with the reasons behind why we attract men like this in the first place.
Until we address that, until we look deeply within ourselves at our own deep needs in this area that ironically mirrors his own needs to be loved but in a different way, we miss the opportunity to bring the subconscious into our consciousness where we can actually do something about it and choose who we fall for and who we choose to go forward in love with.
Our programming tells us we're not worthy ourselves unless we can love the unloved man and be enough of everything we're supposed to be so that he finds his way to love us back.
We pass over the guy who's ready and capable of loving us, falsely believing him to be of inferior value, for the chance to be loved by the very ones incapable of loving us because it promises a higher sense of worthiness for ourselves if we can just unlock the secret to getting him to love us the way we've been promised this whole dynamic works.
But it doesn't work!
And that's the point. You can't make this kind of guy love you in any kind of a real and lasting way unless he does the deep personal work required of him that he can only do for himself to heal his deep wounds he's buried so deep down within; it's a shame-filled experience for him to even acknowledge they exist.
You can't change him. You can't be enough for him. No one can.
Because subconsciously, he sets it up this way. Sure, he'll try to find that one perfect woman who he believes will finally vindicate him of all his failed relationships and restore to him the title of a normal guy.
Because underneath is the subconscious knowledge that he's anything but normal, that he's intensely flawed, as these were the messages this intensely sensitive little boy absorbed. But you'll never hear that from him unless in a rare vulnerable moment, he reveals himself only to cover it up the next with the insistence that he was only joking, and he's back to putting on his front all over again.
When you recognize where you've come from on this, and why he's so attractive to you, you'll realize it's because of who he represents to you. He represents your chance to finally get someone to love you who's this higher stakes, higher value man who represents the father or mother you or other caregiver you couldn't get to love you the way you needed to be loved no matter how much you tried.
And tried you did. You're still trying. We all are. It runs deep, this need to prove ourselves worthy by the very men incapable of ever giving us this kind of love.
That's the key, here, Andrea. Staying in reality. Not believing in fantasies.
And I will tell you, as a believer in the power of God and the spiritual myself, that's one of the reasons why those of us who believe in miracles have a double edged sword of being the perfect candidates to fall for these types of men. We grew up hearing about miracles and a God or a Universe that could make them happen.
Ironically again, it's our very belief in the impossible becoming possible that makes it so hard for us to not take a chance on this type of man.
We catch even a single glimpse of potential, and we're in, signing up for the impossible job of making love out of nothing at all.
This type of guy will probably always hold some attraction for you, Andrea. You'll always be able to pick him out of any room. You'll always feel your heart quicken when you sense someone like this. Not because you're ever going to choose to have someone like this in your life again - even as a friend - but because as much work as you've done on yourself, as much awareness as you have around why he's attractive to you, the magnetic pull to someone like this will always be your initial subconscious response.
But this time, you'll choose what you do with him.
You can choose to recognize the usual magnetic attraction, the usual feelings, the usual heart flutterings and smile to yourself at the realization that this time, you're the one doing the choosing.
This is what changes.
The attraction to someone like this will always be there. But it's the acknowledgement and awareness of this fact that will set you free and allow you to recognize your own power in response to his. You get to choose what you do with him.
So what does that look like in practical terms?
You take your time getting to know someone. Like, a lot of time. You hold something back of yourself - a lot of yourself back. You assume you're going to meet someone who resembles much of your ex until you've gotten to know him well enough to show you he's not.
You let him reveal himself to you without you revealing so much of yourself to him.
You hold someone of yourself back before you've had a chance to really get to know him and that takes real time. You remain emotionally detached enough to keep an objective perspective that allows you to give yourself the same advice you'd give to your own best friend.
Most of all, you believe yourself.
When you sense a red flag, you don't excuse it or reason it away. You listen to it. You listen to that little voice inside you that speaks your truth. You listen to what it's there for and what it's trying to tell you.
You believe yourself. The first time.
I hope this helps, Andrea. You're far from alone out there. And in this time of waking up and seeing more men wake up than I've ever been hopeful for, I, too, have more real hope for us than I ever have before.
Keep us posted, okay? I know there's going to be so much more to the story of your life than the one that ended here. I'm grateful to you for allowing me to share your story and I hope you found some solace and comfort in knowing you're not alone.
Love,
Jane
How about you, Gorgeous? Do you have a similar story to share about a relationship with a narcissist, or any other words of advice or encouragement for beautiful Andrea? Share them with her in the comments below!
Andrea could I please ask your opinion.....
When I was 6 & and Half years old I was raped by a 65 - 70 year old Pedophile whom I had never seen before nor have I ever since.
From that day, that moment , my whole life changed . I could actually feel it happening. When I was about 7ish, I asked my dad if I could 'Chop the Dicky Bird off all the men in the world?' ( Thinking my little suburb was the World )
He replied 'No Bree? Their's too many?'
About another year later at 8, I decided if I couldn't do that to men then I would do something to myself and to make sure that man won't ever want me. So when I was having a shower I took 1 of my mum's cheap razor's (10 pk Plastic disposable for $2) snapped the razor at the top and had hold of blade. I started to cut my left nipple off when Luckily my mum walked in the bathroom knocked the blade out of my hand and stopped me from getting Halfway.
Considering I didn't even know the real meaning to the word 'Sex' at 8? I Certainly didn't know that there was 2 types of sex?
'Good Sex' or a 'Bad Sex'? All I knew, was I never wanted that to Ever happen to me again.
Also between the years when I was 6 - 8 years old and because of what had already happened, I became aware that my Mother was spending way more time with another man (who wasn't my Father) and told an Adult Family Friend that I think mum is having an affair on Dad (Again not completely knowing it's real meaning)
But it left me so confussed as I could not for the life of me figure out why my mum would want to have sex with 2 different men? When I Never wanted to do it again! As to me, I thought Sex was Rape?
Moving forward, at around 14 all mum's Dirty Secrets about her Double life came out. But worst of all that family friend told my father that I had knew about this when I was 6. ( That quite literally Almost Killed my Father and for that, I've never spoken to the family friend again. And neither has my Father.)
Last July I feel in Love for the 1st time in my life.
But Sadly I fell for a lying, cheating, verbally abusive, manipulating, narcissist who I swear enjoyed intentionally hurting me, belittling me and destroying all my confidants and any self worth I had.
After I broke up with him the 1st time I couldn't understand how 2 complete opposites (A lover & Hater) could even be together? This is where I learnt what a Narcissist was and that there was also something within me that is attracted to a man like this, which almost made me sick.
I thought this was all to do with being raped but now I'm wondering if it has to do with all of the above?
The worst part is, I still Love my Ex.
No matter how much I want to be over him and fall out of love with him, I just can't?? And I hate myself for this more and more everyday!
I also can't forgive him for how he has treated me. I have no contact with him at the moment because I still so fragile at the moment, that I just can't deal with even hearing his voice.
Andrea Please can you help me move on and to Never allow another man like this in my life again?
( Sorry for the typo's)
Hi Bree,
I am so sorry to hear what happened to you as a child & with now having to deal with a narcissist. Jane is definitely the expert and I’m sure she will reply to you with some very helpful information & recommendations. From my perspective, you are doing the right thing by not having any contact with him. If you want the cycle of abuse to stop, you have to instill boundaries which narcissists do not like unless it is on their terms. They are abusers & users and will continue to do both to you every time you give them a chance. It is hard, but if you want peace and healing in your life & the chance to find the good man that God has planned for you, you must remain no contact. When my ex first left, of course I still loved him, but I realized I loved the person that I thought he was. I was completely turned off & disgusted by the person he showed me to really be. I had to remember to be kind to myself and mourn the loss of a person I no longer recognized & the loss of my marriage. It definitely takes time, so be kind and patient with yourself. Remind yourself every day that you are worth so much more & deserve the moon and the stars and all above! Spend time with supportive and encouraging friends. Do activities/hobbies that bring you joy. Try new things that you have always wanted to try.
Remember that forgiveness is for you and something to work on every day. Forgiveness is a process and often takes many of us time to go through the process. Forgiving someone doesn’t mean you accept what they did or that you forget about it. Forgiveness means you gives yourself permission to let it go/release it so you can have peace in your life. As far as what my ex did, I turned it over to God and asked Him to handle it as He sees fit.
Take care Bree, be kind to yourself, and give yourself time to heal. 💜
Bree, if you can't afford a one-on-one session with me, I've got a sponsored one for you - please email me directly. Yes, all of the above has everything to do with what you've been experiencing and lovers and haters find each other all the time. I never ever want you to go through this again!
Thank you Jane for explaining narcissism and, most importantly, the reminder to take a really long time when getting to know someone new and to not ignore the red flags! I have never been one to jump into relationships quickly, but after what happened, I clearly need to take A LOT more time when getting to know a man. I’ve only been on a few dates since being divorced, but really have no desire to date or be in a relationship at this time. With more time & healing, I have hope this will change.
I am glad my story is able to help others. It’s alway comforting to know others have been through the same thing or a similar experience. 💜
So glad it helped explain this in more detail, Andrea, and I know hearing your story helped so many others on here as well. Keep us posted. You're not alone!
Thank you, thank you omg thank you xx for so many years the term narcissist has been used to describe many people in my life. I was engaged to be married to one for 9 years separated now for 4 and he still manages to control me, still has my heart and still builds me up only to watch me fall. Yet this is the first time I’ve read about narcissism and understood the true meaning of why and how.
Why his the way he is & why I am so drawn to him (my mum is a narcissist) and how someone who I believed to be my true soul mate can act the way he does. I know you hear this all the time but I truly believe he does love me, it’s a case of as you say him needing to work through his demons (something we talked about many times over the years, but it terrifies him doing so, hence the reason we aren’t together if that makes sense) look he knows he needs to overcome his childhood demons and knows that’s what keeps us apart.
Staying the way he is, pushing the blame onto me is easier no matter how much it hurts him that we are apart.
I know you are all saying I’m still making excuses for him and maybe I am, I just hope he one day does the journey needed to overcome his demons and be the man I know him to be, not for us but for him and for our boys.
Anyway thank you for giving me a true understanding and helping me know that what we had talked about over the years were the reasons why he behaves the way he does, is the reason behind the darkness he feels within him that scares him and can be changed with him and only him doing the work to achieve any outcome.
I know we can’t be together, know I can’t change him, but I like to believe there is good in everyone and that no one enjoys being a person who causes another such devastating pain. Reading this gives me hope that he can become the man, the father I know he can be. (If he chooses to do the hard work and make the changes)
Thank you xx
What you have also helped me realise (lightbulb moment) is how I can overcome attracting or more so targeting guys that can’t love me, being 40 I’ve known nothing but this type of relationship my entire life from friends, work colleagues, family to partners. I now have tools that I’m able to use to work with. Clear instructions with the knowledge of what draws me to these guys wow thank you thank you thank you xxx
So glad, Kirsty. Yes, now you have tools. And a say. And a voice. And your own choices. And a life you're going to live for yourself for a change. And no, it's not selfish. It's how we change our lives so we never find ourselves here again! You go, girl!
Take care and love yourself Andrea. I was married to a narcissist for 15 years, divorced and 6 months ago I moved in with another one. We're all struggling. In my case I want my earthly Fathers' love even though I know heavenly Father loves me unconditionally. Somehow its not enough yet, and Im still trying to fill that void. You are not alone in this. Kristi Elming
My heart goes out to you, Kristi. It's never enough until we grasp that who we are is always enough but that's a work that doesn't happen overnight and takes overcoming some very strong programming. You're not alone in this either, sweet beautiful soul. ❤
Thank you Kristi for sharing. I will pray for your courage to break free from the current narcissist & to give yourself the permission to live your life more abundantly for yourself. The Heavenly Father really does love us more than we can ever fathom, so remind yourself daily to take comfort in knowing that. 💜
This is me in a nutshell. I am going to paste this response into my brain. Love love love this!!
So glad it helped you, too, Kelley. Yes, we need daily reminders of the things we're so used to excusing away!
Wow!!! I was always trying so hard to win my mother's love. In my fifties I figured out I had carried that over into my relationships with men. Your article helped me to understand the "why" behind me being drawn to emotionally unavailable men. It's me trying to win my mother's love all over again. Thank you for sharing your wisdom to help break free of programming and patterns.
That's exactly it, Diana. And now that you understand who these men have represented to you, you've got the power to change it! So glad you found your missing piece.
Andrea, I am an example of someone who was married for 46 yrs to someone who gave me the silent treatment etc. I was so confused. Finally at age forty, I decided to not be so focused on why he treated me the way he did. I continued to work more at a job that I loved, so it kept up my self esteem. At age 72 and a new widow, I met a widower. We have been dating for six yrs and he treats me wonderfully. Some of my immediate "red flags" are people who "sigh, roll their eyes, glare" etc. So take your time getting to know more about yourself and others and get "out there, have a positive attitude" and date and have fun. "History doesn't have to repeat itself with you".
Thanks for sharing your own story, Ginny. So happy for you that you've found who you have after learning how to pay attention to those subtle little things that are anything but!
Thank you Ginny for sharing! I’m looking forward to a different second half of my life. History definitely doesn’t have to repeat! 😊