This week, beautiful Maree writes to tell her story of "forbidden love".
Here's what she wrote:
Hi Jane,
I am in a very wierd situation at the moment and the pull is too strong for me to see reality.
I have met an amazing young man 19 years younger...I am 44 he is 25.
I have never felt so at ease so myself so comfortable and connected as I do with him. We haven't had sex but there is a lot of fire and passion when we kiss...so even on a physical level we are deeply attracted.
So now...here is the problem...I feel so ashamed to say it...but I need to share...he is the elder brother of my daughters boyfriend...I know...it is sickly and not done. AND I SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF MYSELF!!!
My daughter means everthing to me!! And yet I am making the decision each and every time to see him...
Please wake me up and slap me out of this!!
It is soooo hard to stop...because of the connection we already have and the feelings...my daughter and her boyfriend don't know about it...a few of my girlfriends do but not all of them...
Please help me out!!
Love!
Maree
My Response:
I’m not going to “slap” you out of it, Maree, because when we’re shamed into action the shame becomes a bigger problem than the original problem the shaming seeked to fix.
We don’t learn things by being shamed.
My intuition is that shame has been a familiar theme here for you. And so this makes so much sense that you’re reaching out here, because as long as we hide behind the shame piece, nothing changes.
Change happens by getting to the root of why you’re so attracted to this seemingly forbidden man, and by discovering why he’s forbidden to you.
Until you figure out why – and put yourself back in the owning your power position where you (and only you) get to choose what you want to do with all this, you’re going to be susceptible to repeating and attracting this type of situation again.
So let’s figure this out now, before you have to repeat it only to have to go through this painful process again. You’re worth it!
So bear with me here, we’re going to get you through it!
First of all, let’s clarify that you’re both adults. He’s 25. You’re 44.
Regardless of our culture’s view on the age difference, it's your view that matters. And remember if it was reversed, and it was a 25 year old female with a 44 year old man, people would barely blink. So remember this when you’re retelling yourself the reality here.
The relationship is, of course, complicated because of your daughter, but again, this is only our society’s view. And that same society hasn’t exactly done a great job so far teaching us about love.
You say you don’t want to hurt your daughter, so that makes me think you can imagine her being repulsed and ashamed by you, and that’s the bigger issue here. You don’t want to hurt her or cause her to be ashamed of you.
Which leads me to my next question: Are you playing around with him because you’ve got something to prove?
If this might even be a possibility, look at that first. People get hurt when we’re not honest and upfront with our own motives, so if you’re not sure what you’re doing, your best response to all of this is going to be to back out until you can get your head around this entire situation to figure out what you’re actually doing here.
You may find out the excitement dies down because he - and the whole situation - was only attractive to you because it seemed so out of control and secretive, and bringing it out into the light makes it all become real enough to lose that forbidden fruit intensity.
Alternatively, by slowing things down enough to actually talk about all the things at stake - and all the people who could conceivably be adversely affected by the two of you pursuing some kind of a connection or relationship - you may find there’s enough there between you two to warrant bringing it out into the open and having a conversation about it with your daughter and her boyfriend.
But it’s really important to recognize that if the mere thought of doing that – of bringing it out in the open, of having a conversation with your daughter and her boyfriend – is enough to make you ill, that’s telling you something huge. That this isn’t something you’re comfortable with.
And that matters.
Either you need to get over what’s making you uncomfortable - i.e. what other people close to you think - or you need to stop pursing anything with this guy, regardless of whether it’s more you or him who’s doing the initiating.
It’s just the only way, Maree. You either change yourself so that you can live with this (and that includes accepting responsibility for any hurts or relationship problems that may come as a result of the two of you pursuing any kind of a relationship here, even if it’s just a sexual thing), or you don’t.
But living in conflict with yourself never works. That I know for sure!
The key to living without shame, completely unashamed by our own decisions, is to own our actions.
That means you own your desires. You own where you’re at. You own your feelings. You own the weirdness of this situation. You own everything that’s yours to own – and absolutely nothing that isn’t yours to own that belongs to someone else.
As in, you don’t own your daughter or her boyfriend’s reaction.
That means you allow them to have their own reaction without being afraid of it because, if you’re owning your own choices – regardless of whether they’re going to agree with them or not – then there’s nothing they can put on you.
But be honest with yourself here. There’s nothing worse than pretending you can own something if you can’t.
Older women have been fulfilling their own sexual desires with younger men for as long as our grandmothers have been around (and probably longer!) Yes, most of this was done in secret because our culture labeled it taboo, but that didn't mean it didn't happen.
But if you, personally, can’t imagine that being you, if you cringe at the very thought of you behaving like that and would rather be slapped and shamed than face the reality that you might be one of those women who knows herself well enough to know what she needs and isn’t afraid to do that, even if the guy she’s found just happens to be her daughter’s boyfriend’s older brother, then let’s be clear: You’re not going to be able to pull this off!
Don’t try if that’s the case.
Instead, get to know yourself. Figure out who you are and what you want. I mean who you really are, not just the "idea of you" that someone else seems to have. If you’re living a lie, you’re going to feel shame over and over and over again, every time the real you slips out.
And that’s no way to live, Maree.
Choose you. Own every one of your choices. Don’t fight yourself.
Your daughter’s view of you is more about your own view of you than hers. Get that part figured out, and you can do anything you choose to do. But only if you can live with it!
Love,
Jane
What do you think beautiful Maree should do in this situation? Share your thoughts with her, and all of us, below in the comments!
Maree says
As I read your reply Angel I am nodding my head..!
Definately so true..when I was very young I took on the responsibility of looking after my younger sister (6years apart)and got no attention from my parenta or support myself so I sought after this attention in men..have always been attracted to carefree irresponsible (drop dead gorgeous) men/boys..ansd clinged onto them..
So I resonate with what you said about caring for my 16year old within me.
And another thing you said he possiibly sees a mother in me..definately true too.
He and his brother lost their mother to cancer she was only 35..their re al father abandones them when they were very young too..
I think I feel his needs and the pain of missing just as I feel them for myself..it geta complicated when sex comes into it that ia why I so much want to resist it going there with him..I have been able to stop it though the few times we were together which I am very happy about seeing as how it is so intense..
I will keep on meditating on it.
I just really want to tell you all how much it means to me how you are all so gentle toward me about this topic..and reflecting such important information..thankyou all so much!
Jane says
So glad these are all resonating so much with you, Maree. I had a feeling you weren't find yourself alone in what you're going through. Gentle is exactly the term for the supportive women on here. It's a special place here where you never have to be ashamed of who and where you are. I'm thrilled you found your way here!
Maree says
Wow...thankyou all so much for your honest non-judgemental reactions.
Brought tears to my eyes..
Yes I understand very clearly as to what you are all saying.
The connection we have is very real and very vulnerable..we have both shared stuff we have never shared before with a lot openness and tears feels so healing together.
We have both had out share of trauma (violence) and abandonment..and lots of loss of family members.So we share that deep understanding..but the physical is so intense it makes us both cry..even though we have not had sex yet..
But on the other hand..he is 25!I don't initiate contact as I have learned to give myself space and him as well. But I must admit since I have met him my heart will not stop pounding so hard that I can't sleep.
Feel like a 16year old.
He himself sees our connection separate from my daughter and his brother.He says he likes being with me but it also makes him feel insecure because it is not what he is used to.
I notice he finds it hard to show emotions.I am careful of my patterns as I am a warm empathic woman who quickly loves too much and overinvests..whilst nothing is coming out the other.
If anything I am learning so much more about myself and where I need to grow..at the moment it is quiet between us.
I am writing painting playing my guitar making new songs so it has definately put some flames in my belly..but still wonder..am I looking with realistic eyes? I try my best..
Taking it slow..breathing..meditating..not leaning forward but leaning back..
Pffff..thankyou all once again!!
Angel says
It's great you're reaching out, Maree. There's nothing wrong with you, as you have already read. No reason to be ashamed.
I noticed something in this last comment you left. You say you have both shared things you hadn't before. It is only natural to feel a connection when we do so. You also mention you are caring and feel like a 16 year old again. Could it be that he's reflecting a glimpse of your youth? Maybe a freedom and innocence you may have been robbed off because of rough life circumstances? Could it be that you being caring with this young man is about you trying to show care and be cared for to that 16 year old you?
It may also be that he sees a mother figure in you, and he doesn't understand it that well. Of course, I don't have any answers, but you do. See if maybe some of these questions resonate with you and help you understand yourself better.
ella says
Maree,
Your letter to Jane gives me much to think about. Thank you for having the courage to ask Jane for help with this situation that is not all that unusual, although not often dealt with honestly and openly and without shame.
I see no reason to be ashamed of being attracted to a much younger man or being in a relationship with a much younger man, but there are issues of age difference that cannot be ignored, and it appears that you are acutely aware of them and do not want to go forward but are not sure how to back out.
What I've learned here from Jane is that we always have a choice. We are the ones doing the choosing. It sounds to me as if you want to back out without hurting anyone and that you are ready to do that. Easier said than done but worth the effort. There is no shame in changing your mind about entering a relationship when you see red flags.
This is a great opportunity to take the time to find out about yourself and what you really want in your life. I can think of no better place to do that than here with Jane and this community of women.
Kind wishes,
Ella
Cate says
I agree with Katie, been there and done that and nothing wrong in it at all so long as no one is sneaking around. There is absolutely no need to do that and if the guy wants it kept secret that would be a red flag to me suggesting he is ashamed or embarrassed. No reason you should be...I think it’s great but you do need to recognise right from the start that you are at different stages in life and chances are for example he will want children but you’ve done that so the chances of it working out long term are very small. I would talk to him and then if anything continues talk to your daughter. She should be awestruck and proud not ashamed.
Katie says
I’m currently having a fling with a 26 year old. I’m 42. We are both single and realistic about what is happening. We’re pretty much just riding the wave and seeing where it takes us. When I told my 18 year old daughter her comment was ‘go on Mum, have fun’. After a couple of failed relationships it’s liberating to meet someone who treats me well and is a lot of fun. I know it won’t last and that’s my advice to you. Keep that in your head and just enjoy yourself. Life’s too short. Have fun ?