Beautiful Tania is wondering if she should take back her boyfriend of almost 9 years, or if he's just going to keep on doing the same things that have left her heartbroken in the past.
Here's her story:
Hi Jane
For the past 8 to 9 years I have been in a toxic relationship, yet I stay, as I can see the good in him.
Most women would've left and I myself would've left if I was a younger version of myself. I am unsure of what keeps me in it, it could be that after me leaving all of my previous relationships that I have now developed a belief that I need to try harder, combined with a fantasy of this guy while he was with his previous partner.
I saw him be so attentive to her and wanted that kind of relationship for myself.
He has 3 children, 2 girls and 1 boy, to his previous relationship and I have 2 girls to my previous relationship. It all started good, as relationships usually do, and then he decided to over rule me and my decisions about whether my eldest was allowed to sit in the front seat of the car or not.
When we moved in together (we moved into his house) he stopped her from cuddling me and made her throw out her barbie dolls and other toys. She was 11-12 years old at the time.
Told her and me that she needed to grow up. Then my children were antagonizing his children that they deserved to be hit and scratched by his children. And even though they all lied, my eldest was the one that always got the blame - she was called a liar and a heap of other names (the younger daughter was also called names just not as much) and his kids were allowed to call her names as well.
When I tried to stop it or even talk about it I was told that she deserved it, and that he was only saying the truth.
I managed to get the children to stop but not for at least 4 years. I also spoke to her a few times because she was so upset and believed that he didn't like her or her sister due to him picking on them and calling her names.
I told her not to listen to the name calling, that he does love her he doesn't know how to show her the way that I had always showed her, and that she needed to follow the rules; if she was doing the wrong thing, then she needed to accept the consequences.
He either heard all of the conversation or just a small part of it and honed in on the fact that I told her not to listen to him. And it hasn't mattered when I have fully disclosed what was said, I did the wrong thing. I felt insecure and became jealous when he pulled away, not wanting to watch movies with me or go to bed with me, and when I walked into the room he was in when he was on his computer he would short screen whatever he was looking at or close all of the tabs altogether.
When I asked about this I was told that he wasn't doing said things. I tried to be vulnerable and let him know that I was feeling insecure and that if we were able to talk about it honestly I would get better. He told me that he wasn't not spending time with me.
After being all over each other before we moved in, to not having any sort of intimacy for weeks at a time I was beside myself with insecurities.
It even got to the point that every time I tried to initiate anything he would have a reason as to why he didn't want to proceed. I even tried sending raunchy texts to bring the spark back, to no avail.
Things slowly got worse with my eldest daughter, and he slowly convinced me that it was all her fault. I felt like she was the devil's spawn.
His children however could do no wrong and when they did get in trouble, on the rare occasion that they did, I felt for them too, as he was very harsh (I felt). He made me think he was going to ask me to marry him, and after years of wanting this and feeling unworthy I let him know how I was feeling - still nothing until I asked him. Then he would not talk about setting a date, eventually saying that he didn't want to get married.
He yelled at my eldest for eating with her mouth open and talking with food in her mouth, yet ignored the fact that his children were doing the same. He abused my children, yelling at them in their face, spitting all over them as he was that angry, pulling them off of their beds (top bunk and all) by their wrist, pushing them down to the ground.
He also made my eldest sleep outside one night after she had had a tantrum about something that she felt was unfair.
There were plenty of unfair things happening and when I said anything about it, he said that life isn't fair they have to get over it. I know that I will be judged for the above abuse and there was more that I won't say. And after my eldest moved out, at the very young age of 16, I believed that he would start on his eldest daughter if what he had been telling me was true, but he skipped her and went to my youngest.
And I became depressed because of it, for my guilt in not stopping it from happening and not standing up for my girls.
Now he already had me believing that my child was horrible, and her behavior had become extreme so that was his reasoning as to why he lost control. I tried hard to get him to see that it had affected us all, and that things needed to change. He got upset when I went out with my eldest without him, yet he didn't understand why I wanted anything to do with her.
He punched holes in the wall after bursting through a locked door during a disagreement one night and made me go to bed with him another night after waking the children up with his yelling to get me to go to bed with him.
I moved out and we went to counselling, which went good for a while, but we had a huge hiccup and things have gone south again.
I am sticking to my guns that he needs to attempt to fix his relationship with my children before we can move forward and I am being accused of having to have everything my way. After moving all of my stuff up to my house and unfriending me on facebook for the second time, he is now admitting his fault in what has been happening.
Is this just an attempt to get me back again so that he doesn't have to change, or is there a chance that he means it this time????
Regards
-Tania
My Response:
My heart breaks for you, Tania, because I know just how strong that pull is when you can see the good in someone.
My inbox is full of women who've "seen the good in him." The women I work with all have their own heartbreaking stories of all the men they tell me they've "seen the good in."
Men like you've described here should never be in our lives beyond the point where we recognize the familiar traits that remind us of what we're used to, and what we've grown far too comfortable with, to the detriment of ourselves.
You're exactly right on why you stay, on why you're still attracted to him, on why you're still willing to look past everything he's done and still give him the benefit of the doubt because of the good you see in him.
This is what we do, Tania.
We who've been brought up to believe in fairytales, in scripts that were written for us and our fantasies where we find our worth in being what no other woman before us could be to these men who aren't capable of changing, no matter what befalls them.
I've seen men who've lost everything - their parents, their kids, their livelihoods, their health - and STILL they're not ready to look within and see where they were once so wounded, and actually admit they need help, not because there's always something wrong with the woman in their lives, but because there's something that needs to be worked on within them.
Shame and guilt keep them in the dark, and they don't dare go any deeper and see what that shame is covering up.
There is no "fixing" this on your part, Tania.
You can inspire a man to change. You can be the woman who gives him the opening that opens him up to the idea of change. But until he's ready to look in those places within himself, to look at why he could ever treat you this way, he's going to deny it and put the blame on you.
In his world, you make him do this. In his world, you bring these behaviors out in him. And in your world, you agree with him. Not consciously, but subconsciously by how you reinforce these behaviors positively in him.
Until you say enough, until you set some boundaries around yourself and your children, instead of just staying in the shame and guilt yourself of what you've allowed so far, nothing changes, and certainly not him.
Has anything in his past patterns of behavior given you any reason to believe he means it this time? Do you have any reason to believe anything he says when you've spent the last almost 9 years of your life putting up with such abusive behavior from this man towards both you and your children?
Yes, most other women would have left, as would the younger version of yourself have done - for good reason. But for all you can see "the good in him", that doesn't mean you can actually live with him, nor does it mean you can subject your children to living with him, nor does it mean you should ever be anything more than a referral to a therapist for him.
He misses you. He misses how good he has it with you. He knows how good he has it with how much you put up with from him! That's why he's back reaching out to you again. Not because of you, but because of him.
I know you know this, Tania. Your younger self knows it well. Check in with her.
Ask her why you're still here, why you're still giving someone the benefit of the doubt who has shown you going on almost a decade that he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt from you! She knows the same thing you do and she knows exactly what you need to do. And if you still can't do this for you, please do it for your kids. They deserve more than this!
I hope this helps.
Love,
Jane
Now it's your turn - do you think Tania should take him back this time? Share your thoughts with her down below in the comments; she needs to hear from you!
His is abusing you and your children. Choose yourself and your children. You would not want your daughters or grandchildren to grow up to tolerate the abuse you have put up with. You deserve better!
Thank you everyone for your comments, love and respect. I had never heard of trauma-bonding and after learning about it I have a bit more of an understanding as to how and why I have been unable to remove myself from this relationship.
It is a hard path as I am still questioning myself, what did I do, what can I do. Am I a bad parent? Am I not seeing that my daughter caused this because I am biased? (I know that is not the case, but it still crosses my mind due to all of the times I have been told this). After fighting and him telling me over and over again that I need to let him try, I need to commit to letting him try to be emotionally available like I had always wanted and me saying over and over that I don’t trust that, that he needs to prove it before I will commit. I also asked about my saying sorry to my daughter to which he said that she had plenty of time and opportunity to improve her behaviour that he does not need to apologise I said that I was done. We are currently trying to seperate everything. But I feel a backflip coming on, not just yet he is still angry at the second but I feel that it will soon. And I am having trouble going from being at peace with my decision to questioning myself again along with feeling lonely and wondering if at 48 I will even meet someone else, not that I actually want to at the moment!!
Thanks again
Hello Tania,
I know many women in their fifties, myself included, who have attracted men, and still do. Got asked out by a man of 32 a few months ago, and I'm hardly a fashion model; I'm told I will "have them queueing" again, once I'm ready for another relationship (currently blissfully single); and I'm nearly 59 now! You're a youngster, girl!!! 48's NOT OLD!!!
Thing is, Tania, you actually don't need a man, if you're secure within yourself. The purest form of validation comes from within. Always remember that.
The main thing, right now, is to take care of yourself and your family - physically, emotionally and psychologically. It sounds like you are in a toxic relationship where you have come to want so much to be with this man - or a man, period - that you are allowing your own identity and self-worth to crumble and your very spirit to be crushed. And, without meaning to, putting yourself and loved ones in harm's way.
I will say this again: I would doubt very much, if you've been in a relationship with this man for four years, that he is suddenly going to propose to you now. If he truly knew what he wanted and it was you that he wanted, he would have gone on one knee for you already. That's what real men do. The rest are just immature boys, users and losers.
It sound to me as though you are afraid of being alone, and that your need to please and be true to this man is greater than your need to please and be true to yourself. I know there is the "sunk cost" element here, but throwing more of your years as an attractive, eligible woman who has amply shown that she can give, give and give yet again of herself and deserves some happiness and respect, is not the answer.
All you are doing is making it impossible for the right man to walk into your life - someone who will love, cherish and respect you, for whom getting engaged will not be a problem. Sooner you kick this one into touch, sooner you let the love back into your life. And you will get that in chunks from your family and good friends - engage their support and ask them to help you, in practical and emotional ways, to leave.
Please get your family away from this toxic environment with this man, Tania. Then spend some time focusing not on what this man did to you but rather why you let him do it - because all the answers are inside YOU.
And when you are right with yourself and healed, just let Mr Right into your life. He's out there and yes, there is definitely such a man for you. I wish loads of luck, love and a big fat hug. You can do this, Tania. All us girls are with you on this. Unanimous verdict from the jury, I think! Go for it!! xoxo
Tania this man is a narcissist. You need to stay away and block all contact. Its not love its trauma bonding. Read up on it. He cannot treat yourself or children this way or his kids cannot respect u. Its a 2 way st...kick him too the kurb there is someone out there who will love u for u and ur kids. Xx take care i have been through this
Thanks Lisa, I have researched trauma bonding and am coming to grips with the reality of it. A lot of things hit home and made sense so thank you for steering me to investigate that.
I have been going to counselling for 2 years at least now along with calling out of hours services and not once has any of them said that he is a narcissist, one said he was gaslighting me and my main counsellor has only just suggested that maybe he is manipulating me.
Can you please point out the reasons you believe he is narcissistic? It will help me recognise it and hopefully help me as I seperate from him.
I have told him it is over, I am heartbroken and in tears one minute and glad that I am not feeling like I am being held hostage the next.
Again thank you
To me this man shows signs of being a dangerous person. There’s no judgement from me that you feel a magnetic pull towards him - it’s a deep pull which is hard to ignore. I’ve been your sixteen year old daughter on the receiving end of that kind of treatment from a father and it’s destructive and damaging beyond belief. There’s no telling other people what to do, and I have no desire to do that but you’re doing so, so well to have got away from him and that in itself will save your daughter to some degree from the damage that’s been done and you should turn towards yourself and try to concentrate on feeling good about breaking this pattern.
If you go back to him, his behaviour will get worse and your daughter may become alienated from you. You and your children are worth so much more than that - well done for getting away and I’m sending you love x
Thank you I needed to hear/see the view from the other side, even though I knew from my past trauma that it would not be good. Lisa’s comment of trauma-bonding and researching it is helping me understand more.
Again thanks
Look at this guy with the eyes of your 16 year old, the fact that she couldn't stand him it's a clear sign that this guy is not right for you.. A very big ups to your daughter for standing up to this man when you couldn't.
You and your girls deserve the better, this guy will never change. Please walk away and never look back, your health and sanity is more important than this none existent relationship.
Tamia,
You nor your kids deserve to be treated in such an abusive way. This isn't about him, its about you! You teach people how to treat you and believe what u see and feel. Once you learn how to #Loveself1st, you can move forward without hesitation. It doesn't matter if he wants u back or not, what matter is someone capable of loving you and your kids they way u want and need them to without it being toxic. Please tap into your womanly intuition it will be your guidance when in doubt.
Take care!
Think about your poor children and what they have been through. That alone would keep me 100 miles from this man.
Hi Tania,
I totally get all that you are going through and it’s hard to leave when you see the good and believe his the one, not to mention having the blended family it’s hard.
When going through the abuse for as long as you and your children have you become accustomed to the treatment which doesn’t make it right, just harder to see the situation for what it really is, with which we usually play the story down and don’t tell it for as bad as it really is subconsciously knowing we shouldn’t be there and shouldn’t go back but hoping that others tell us we should.
However, I would say you are best of walking away, you’ve already gone through 9 years of abusive behaviours and you need to consider the impact that this has on not just you but also your girls.
My question to you is:
If one of your daughters was living the relationship you have with a guy would you be happy for them to take him back?
When looking at the situation with someone else we instantly know the answer, cause we want the best for them. Especially when we sometimes don’t believe we deserve better or that we should have been different or shouldn’t have said what we had said etc etc
Please know I’m not judging you cause I too do the above can see how it should or shouldn’t be with someone else but have lived nothing but abusive relationships believing I don’t deserve anything else but the hell I was living. My reasons for escaping was my children, no matter what I feel or believe about me I know my children don’t deserve to be treated badly, don’t deserve to live in fear, they deserve to be treated equally with patience love and understanding and if a partner can’t do that for them well they aren’t the right person for me.
I’m still working on my inner child issues and the way it impacts my relationships, as you do more work within we begin to realise that it’s not just our partners that we have be drawn to that treat in such a way but our friendships our family members even the relationships we form at work well this is the case for me anyway...,
I hope you see that you are worth love in the purest of forms and although you believe what you share with him as love, it’s not the type of love that you’re worthy of.
I can’t say how you begin to work on your inner demons as I call them as I’ve been doing it since I was 16 and being 40 I’m still dealing with toxic people and I’m only just learning to cut ties with those people without holding the guilt and being worried that I’m upsetting someone or hurting someone’s feelings or responsible for the reaction they have. Cause this is the important part for me, as long as I’m letting go from a place of love and respect how they react is on them and them alone. How does one do that well my theory is it’s a simple method I tell them I explain that I care or love them however I love me more and as much as they promise they will change I can’t be there and under go the way that they choose to treat me, and I have to do whats right for me which is remove myself from the relationship that is shared. Explaining that I wish the best for them in the future. Depending on the person and the level of toxicity depends on the method of communicating this phone, text, email or in person.
And with this I walk away cutting all ties with them as to not allow them to work their way back into my life. However, if and if I do allow someone back into my life I do so with caution allowing them the time to show me they have done the work and made the changes and I’m sorry no one changes without doing the work.
I really do hope you see you for the amazing beautiful person you are and see that you deserve a life of happiness and everyones advice resonates with you in a non judgemental way (no one has the right to judge anyone, it’s not their place nor their story) so if you do feel judged please know it’s not intentional we are all here for a reason of some description after all abuse is abuse there’s no spectrum of 1-10 with it.
good luck with your journey xxx
No! She should get it while she can and she will be so much happier and free feeling. My husband was similar and we went back and forth if we should break up or not but after being together for 13 years. He said he would change and he did for a few months but in January he beat me up, I fought back in self defense and he got me arrested for domestic violence, took full custody of our child and got a restraining order against me. I posted bail to get out of jail which put me in the hole $5000 and had to hire a lawyer to fight the domestic violence which is another $5000 just to start and I now have to fight everything to get it reversed on him. It was like he planned this and it was not worth staying!!! I say get out now!!
Tania,
I have worked with women/families who have been subjects of domestic violence. There is no other way to express this than DV.
I completely understand your wanting to believe that he will change- but he won't. It's been 9 years. You are placing your children and yourself at risk from the abuse this man is inflicting. DV doesn't have to be physical, it is also mental abuse.
Your 16 year old moved out, please do not risk losing your other children. I hope this man has been reported to the proper authorities wherever you live so that all these children and any others he comes into contact with in future, are safe and not exposed to this treatment. This is time for you to be strong and do what you know is right for your children and for you, and that is to get out and stay out.
Please seek help for yourself and your children- counselling and support and focus on your family. This man needs help but you cannot fix him.
HELL NO !! NO QUESTION!!
Absolutely, no. Your first duty is to your children and to nurture and build them up. You have spent far too long with this person at their expense. Put on a cloak of self-respect and move on. There is someone else out there for you. This guy is tearing down your children and their self-esteem. Children learn what the live. There are Absolutely NO excuses for any behavior such as this.
I did have two former bad relationships. I'd rather be live alone forever than spend another minute living a life with a controlling narcissist. Harsh words, but true. Good luck to you and prayers for healing for you and your children.
I read your entire story. Tania, that guy is an a**hole and is never going to change. 8 or 9 years, really? Why would he change, you have let him get away with too much? You have to do better for your kids sake. Don't you see the news where women have lost their children due to abuse by men who aren't their father? I get it; he's a father so he should be good with kids. But your children are yours and everyone isn't going to be loving, unfortunately. It is your job to protect them from this harm. If you don't, they can grow up with loads of problems. Basically, F*@k that dude! Find someone better.
Tania
This man is abusive.
He is controlling you and you are letting him,
No man is as important as your children and their mental, physical and emotional health.
They are subect to adverse childhood trauma.( google it)
Do you really want them to grow up thinking this is what an adult relationship should be like,
If so, then you are scarring your children for life and are just as guilty as this abusive man and his children.
He is not your problem, he is his own problem. There are better men. Neither are you his saviour or therapist.
Get out now.
If he's been with you all those years and you aren't married, never will marry you. Real men know what they want and they go for it. Besides, he's told you he doesn't want to get married. When a man tells you that, believe him the first time. He will not change, he is abusive to your children and the relationship between you and him and the ones between him and them will mess them for good if you allow this to go on. Plus, you're strung out. If he is a narcissist (and we cannot be sure), he will say anything to get back in by turning on the charm, selectively. But if you take him back, be sure that the behaviour will soon go back to normal, and it will get worse. Because, by allowing him back, you've condoned it and he respects you and your kids even less. This is 100% a no-brainer, Tania.
The very first time that he disrespected my children without consulting me first there would have been a problem. He is a narcissist among other things. He knows what he is doing by picking on your children only. What a mean thing to do. What is it about him that you like. He doesn't even like you enough to make you happy sexually or any other way. You are in love with your own idea of what he SHOULD be, but isn't. As a mother your children should come. Before you and him. How could you allow him to make them suffer. They cannot protect themselves. Wake up and lose that loser. He will never change. He has a personality disorder. One day he just might do harm to you and your children.
Walk away and don’t look back. He is abusing your children, you are very lucky that social services haven’t been at your door. My duty would be with my children every time. Cut all contact. It is better to be on your own with your self pride and sanity intact. Don’t ever think that you may never be with another man and put up with second best. At the age of 60 I left a nine year relationship, he wasn’t abusive, but we weren’t on the same page. What kept me with him? I thought that being with him was better than nothing at all.
Take off this heavy overcoat you will feel much betterI
Ilana, did you ever have another relationship, or did you just find peace and happiness on your own?
I'm curious, because I just left a terrible relationship, at 58, which I'd been in for going on 6 years. And you do wonder if that will be it and you'll live your life alone. It's a terrible wrench, especially if you are magnetically attracted to the man, love him so much and have been trauma bonded into the relationship with him from the moment that he lovebombed his way into your life, all those years ago - and then dropped you the occasional little fix of that drug, just to keep you hungry for it and tethered there.
Women in their forties and early fifties go through all this, thinking they'll no longer find a man; daren't leave; and yet they have no idea how beautiful they still are.
I'm focusing now on having better boundaries. You can analyse the relationship and analyse/obsess about the man (to whom you are trauma bonded - Stockholm Syndrome - without realising it) as much as you like, but the main person to analyse is YOURSELF.
They only manipulate and abuse us like this because we let them. We're nurturers, empaths, co-dependents and other nice, giving people - just the soft targets they like.
We don't have a list of DEALBREAKERS for relationships; a list of WANTS AND NEEDS for our lives and for our relationships; and a highly developed sense of OURSELVES, which would enable us to set STRONG PERSONAL BOUNDARIES. These we need, so that losers, highly insecurely attached people, emotionally unavailable men, psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists and other users, abusers and otherwise toxic individuals can't get anywhere near us.
It's a good thing to have someone to talk to - preferably a therapist. These days, I'm moving my therapy away from what happened and my feelings about it and about him; obsessing less about what he's doing now; and, realising that I'm the important one here, am working on ways, with my therapist, to explore how abusive family relationships in early childhood made me so susceptible to this kind of man.
Thanks for your comment - appreciated.