One of our beautiful readers, Felicia, is wondering if she drove away a great guy by being (her words) a "hot mess".
Here's her story:
Hi Jane.
I recently discovered your site to look for answers to many of my questions.
I have seen many articles or posts everywhere that he was not just the one or bad boy, etc.
But...what if, in fact, we were the one messing with a great guy? Or "Like attracts like"?
I recently ended up with a person who was quite close to whom I am looking for while my mother was fighting for her life. I met him via online dating site after several months after relocating to new country. Prior to that, I was just enjoying casual datings with some men. However he was different.
He was serious about searching for the one.
He is neuroscientist and tends to analyse situations. On our first date, I felt uncomfortable being assessed in the beginning. Half way through I started enjoying his company.
We went out several times and texted everyday. Then holiday season kicked in. Both traveled to family separately, our daily text continued. I returned with a sad news that my mother passed.
Shortly after her passing, he pulled away.
Our text continued but very dry daily life report. He even did not ask any question about my life. It seemed no exhibition of interest in me. I was confused thus I said so to him. Later he said that he was favouring giving me space to properly grieve my loss, an invisible support.
On the other hand, I was hoping that I could spend more time with him. I could lean on his shoulder a bit. According to him, it is co-dependency enabling behaviour, which He is not interested in.
We still texted everyday. Yet I asked him occasionally if he is happy just texting everyday. In his reply, my words and actions are enough to know what he needs to know without seeing each other.
Finally I could not handle this situation and got very emotional - mood swing, passive-aggressive. At the end, he said he was just sorry that I stirred it in this direction, which made me think I was the bad one. A month later I also found I was going through pre-menopause causing mood swing.
In retrospect, I now understand his points as well. But I am not happy I was the only one made the situation worse.
Was I a hot mess with a great guy or he also had issues?
To comfort myself, I took it we are not good match. But what can I take from this lesson?
- Felicia
My Response:
Dear Felicia,
First of all, I want to say that I'm so sorry for the passing of your mother. I'm sure that was a difficult time for you and it’s understandable you were looking for someone to lean on, to support you through this. There’s nothing “co-dependency enabling” about being there for someone through their loss.
There’s just being there for someone.
The last thing we ever do is trust ourselves. But there was clearly a reason you asked him if he was happy just texting every day. There was clearly a reason you couldn’t handle the situation – his terms – and got “very emotional”. There was clearly a reason you felt that you were the “bad one”.
He did what worked for him. And you sensed, and felt, and responded to this.
Your body, mind, and soul could see this, even if your heart couldn't.
These were his terms. He gave you space when you needed closeness and support because it worked for him. He didn’t ask you what you needed. He told you your words and actions were enough for what he needed to know – without needing to see each other.
You lived by his terms, Felicia. He lived by his terms.
He put on you the sole responsibility for what went wrong, saying you stirred it in the direction it went.
Where’s his part in there?
It’s not there because it can’t be there for this to work for him. He can’t see that you would want more than texting every day – like actually seeing him – because that was obviously not what he wanted.
Can you see how one-sided your relationship really was? Can you see that when we talk about two people being on two different pages, that this is exactly what it was for you?
You didn't make the situation worse; you were simply responding to the terms of the relationship that had you deferring to him because he seemed to know better (or at least came across like he did) while your own unmet needs lay silent until they could no longer bear to do so.
And that’s when you became whatever he put on you – because you changed –you stood up for what you wanted - and he didn't want you to.
You became more of yourself. You stood up and said something when you could no longer go along with his version of what your relationship was and wasn’t. You reached a point where you couldn't be true to yourself and keep deferring to him for the terms of your relationship any longer.
That’s why it ended, Felicia.
Not because you’re “bad”, not because there was ever anything wrong with you. Not because you were a “hot mess”. Not because you were “pre-menopausal”. But because you were two different people on two different pages and you finally woke up to this reality and stood up for who you were and what you wanted from him.
And so you found out what he wanted. And what he didn’t. You found out what page he was on, and what page he wasn’t.
And you found out something more.
That we’re not meant to handle situations like this when we love like we do, when we feel like we do, when we give like we do, when we care like we do.
We’re made for more. So much more.
Your true self finally could take this kind of one-sided relationship no more, Felicia. There comes a time for all of us when we can’t keep doing the same thing over and over again if it’s not in alignment with our true selves, with the lives we were made for, with the kind of love we’re meant for.
You weren’t the one who “only made the relationship worse”; you were the one who gave it a chance to be something real.
Love,
Jane
What do you think? Do you have any other words of advice or encouragement for our dear friend Felicia? Share them with us in the comments!
As I said before in my earlier comment about these situations. One has to decide what life you desire? One of peace or one of what is going to happen today? Getting up each day before doing anything, saying to yourself..this is MY day, I will do something good to someone. Reach out. Etc.
I tend to agree with some life couches.....a woman should NEVER be always available to a man's needs. Step back. If he is rude, etc, step back..take ME time, let him think a while and don't go rushing once he phoned, as some tend not to phone but choose to let you wait as sort of punishment....so, return the favor as well. Life is about choices we make ,we, without knowing it, TEACH people how to treat us. Should he then like I read above, talk nasty or rude towards you, rather listen and take a deep breath, look him straight in the eye, pick up your things and just go politely just say
sorry, I will come back if you can phantom a decent conversation. It hurts, I know, Ive been there, butttttttttttt that is the surest way to know whether this relationship will and can stand the ups and downs. Then, leave, let HIM contact you first. There are so much one can do when apart to think things over....go to nurseries, get involved in reaching out to others in need, discover little places you never knew, take up art or crafts, cry if you must. We as women run on emotions. Did you know that it is actually not good at all? We were not born to be unhappy with someone. Everyday should be a blessing and be embraced. I do believe that one's happiness is not centered in another human being. It cannot as people are human and those that are hurt somehow, will hurt others. That's Murphy's law. Check out the writing of
Mothers day when God made Mothers. Whether you are a mother or not, that is spot on.
Women have a lot to offer the world. A lot. We should change our minds and our thinking that we have to have a man to be fulfilled. We need to fill the void inside us with ourselves and the Word. That's true. No matter how you look at it, that's true.
It is stipulated in the Bible how a man should treat his wife and visa versa. In the end if he cannot do so, then do not marry him or consider a relationship with him. If one is already in it, then pray for wisdom and fulfill yourself till your bucket is overflowing so that you can make clear cut decisions about your own life forward. There's a saying that goes, one is in love with the feeling of love, not the person really......so even if you love that person do death, but its not meeting your needs, one has to
let go sooner or later. Let me be blunt if I may, rather now than a few years down the line as it becomes extremely expensive and destructive. Think about it, if the person you are with are treating you not well now, no marriage will fix it, it will become worse over time that is a fact of life. Besides, no one on earth can decide for one whether that person is good for you or not, only you yourself. A relationship is give and take, more give than take. Again, I want to put emphasis on a plant here....nurture it and it will grow DAILY. If there is no support from the other, nothing will survive. That's more or less in short it. So, if he does not support you in need, he would not have done so later as well. How dare I say so? I buried a child, I had to do it all by myself and that after marriage of 40 years....never once was he supportive and today.......he is constantly apologizing, but what a price I paid. So no........think about yourself and your life and your own worth before you end up marrying thinking it WILL change, as it does not. We are worth so much more.
Beautifully said, Sunet. Thank you for adding this.
Not your fault hon
So true, Patty. Thank you.
I was and still am in this situation. It's not as bad as before but it's still bad. The reason i know it's still bad is i woke up and reading this made it even more real.
He is not for you. I agree that we react to our surroundings. The saying before you diagnose yourself with depression, analyse your surroundings is so very true.
My boyfriend had me believing i was bipolar when in actual fact i knew he was seeing someone else and lying about it. He was a very good liar too. I wanted to believe him so much that i went to counseling and was not encouraged to come back because i was reacting normally.
Hi Jane and all!
Thank you for your comments and feedback.
Now I wonder why I did not walk away when he did not stand by me supporting during difficult time, which is really unlike me according to my besties. Why even on the first date when I was uncomfortable in the beginning and agreed to meet him again...To show my decisiveness, the shortest date I ever went on or ended was in 5 min just because I did not feel the vibe between us.
Don't look back, Felicia. Just let this experience be a reminder that you can trust yourself, that you intuitively know more than you think you do, and that now you more more. You knew the truth all along.
hi Felicia,
I am so sorry for the loss of your mother.
My response to you is this - when you imagine the perfect, loving man, is this man someone who would pull away from you when someone so dear to you passes away? (Or for that matter, when anything tragic happens in your life). Or is this perfect man that you imagine for yourself someone body would stick by your side, be a shoulder to lean on, be supportive and be there for you? My guess is that when you imagine the right man for you, it is somebody that I described in the second situation-someone who would never walk away and let you mourn alone, especially in times like this. Doesn't it sound almost ridiculous to you that a man who you care for and love would do this to you? I am amazed at his response to you - leaving you to mourn and grieve alone. Is this his idea of a loving and supportive relationship? Of course you wanted more from him. Good for you for asking and standing up for yourself. And naturally, when you did stand up for yourself, it shook him and bothered him, he found you 'needy', and he told you that. Naturally, when he told you you are needy (or whatever negative response he said), it created more negative feelings in you. Your negative feelings were normal. And he saw your negative reaction in your behaviour and messages to him. And now, in his mind, he saw something 'wrong' with you and he let you go. But do you see that all this began with him withdrawing from you? This has absolutely nothing to do with you-you didn't mess up with the right guy. The right guy would never have left you to grieve alone from the very beginning 🙂 I really hope you can realise this and go out there to find that right guy you imagine for yourself 🙂
Thank you for your poignant words for Felicia, Sarah. You said so much here to inspire us all. 🙂
Oh Felicia I feel for you sweetie! You reminded me of the guy I was with for just over 3 years (on and off). I was totally convinced that I must be losing my mind and so I went on a waiting list to see a psychologist, and had a good few sessions with her, only to be told "Donna, there's nothing wrong with you, you don't need a psychologist, you're fine as you are. Your boyfriend is the one with the issues" Man!!! To hear those words!
I stayed in the relationship for a little longer, hoping he would see how wonderful I am, but he didn't and couldn't and wouldn't, so I ended it 4 months ago. He sent me an email yesterday about an article I might be interested in for a medical condition I have....I deleted it because he's, again, looking for a way back into my life and I damn well can't go there again! I suggest, Felicia that you purchase Janes programme (if you haven't already) I recently started it and I can feel it working in me, slowly slowly. I'm now putting as much, if not more effort into ME than I have always put into relationships with guys! I'M my focus of attention now. MY needs matter. I'm sending you (((HUGE HUGS))) Felicia.
Love
Donna xxx
Powerful words, indeed, Donna! Thank you for sharing - and for your kind words. I'm so glad you're already feeling the benefits of my program!
How it changes everything to find out there's nothing wrong with you, but everything wrong with the person(s) we allow to play such a significant role in our lives. No wonder we think there's something so wrong with us! How can we not when we allow our worlds to revolve around the ones who we do? If you haven't read this one already, you'll see why I can relate. 🙂
Jane I agree with your perspective on Felicia's situation. It is painful when everyone can see what we're doing wrong except us. Felicia we have all been there. All I can tell you is that it will get better. The first step is taking a stand, no matter how small; and you did. Be kind to yourself and take good care.
So true, Hazel. Thank you for your encouraging words for Felicia. They all help. 🙂
This is such a common situation, indeed. The real battle field where men and women totally kill each other. A man meets a woman he likes. Things go great in tgebeginning, then something happens the guy either permanently loses interest or just temporary pulls away. Most of the time there is no way to tell which one has happened, so relationship experts tell us to keep our cool. If a guy pulls away fr just a couple of days it is fairly normal and worth the patience. You should give him the space he needs. Ifeel he pulls away for longer periods of time you may start askingvyourself a legitimate question of whether you are OK with that. And apparently in this situ the lady was totally understandably not Ok with a boyfriend who showed no empathy in her darkest hour. What was she supposed to do? Se could be patient and say nothing, but it would not change the fact that she was unhappy with how he wasand perhaps eventually they would be back around, but it would not change the fact that she was unhappy about how he treated her. So she should stop blaming herself. Hit mess she was? Perhapse indeed. But a guy is not truly anew awesome guy unless he knows how to handle it.
It's the pages we're on that are so telling, Nina, and whether those pages are the same or not as the ones we're with. Thank you for adding your perspective here; they all provide a different piece of the same puzzle.
Dear Felicia,
The guy you are thinking about seems like a real mess - incapable of establishing an emotional, true human connection, acting like some creepy scientist in his small lab! HE also has serious fears and issues (even without any recent loss of a parent), I find it strange that you initially thought that he is serious about finding the one - what, another testing subject? It seems so obvous to all of us, except for you.
We all have our insecurities and fears, I think that we will always have some within - it takes guts to finally face them, to stay true to ourselves, to leave the lie and move on. You did this. You should feel prowd. The guy wanted to stay in the lab, so leave him there. From date one you felt this is not the connection you need, trust yourself.
So true, Sladja. "Trust yourself" is some of the best advice any of us can ever heed. Thank you for adding your thoughts here for Felicia, and so many others who find themselves wondering the same thing.
My mother recently passed away too. I noticed after she did, that I didn't view the world the same again. I believe there are two types of worlds, one- the material world and two- the pure world. When you lose someone like your mother, you enter from the material world to the pure world. You are stripped from trying to prove yourself, from judgments and from a world that is preconditioned. You become a whole being again, in which you have always sought since birth. Its normal for people to look different after this, for people to look fake. I don't believe you were a "hot mess" I believe you had to do what was best for you...
What a beautiful observation on life and loss - and light, Cassandra. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm so sorry for your loss as well.
Alas, if only so many of us hadn't walked that same path. But it's no sweat, if you stayed, it means you would have settled, he would have won. The one who wants you won't make you question where you stand with him. That's all I know. I hate head games! On the female, it takes an emotional toll.
If that's all you know, Dazz, that's enough! "The one who wants you won't make you question where you stand with him." Exactly!
Felicia -- I have often been in the same place as you, feeling like I "wrecked" a relationship. But no more.
A friend told me the best thing. She said her mother used to say that if you're feeling needy, there's a reason -- your needs aren't being met!
But you deserve to have your needs met and deserve to celebrate your need to love and be loved. People who can't love will try to make us feel we are overly needy, overly emotional, even irrational. I once had a guy tell me that to him "emotions are kryptonite"! THAT is crazy!
Our emotions are what make us human. People who don't respect and honor our emotions don't belong in our lives.
Love this, Misty. The other side of "needy"!
Felicia,
I am so sorry for the loss of your mother. Jane's response to you was so perfect and loving, however there's one little blurp I would like to add. Since this website is called "Getting to True Love," remember what true love actually is -- a two-sided partnership where you accept your partner for who they are, loving them despite of their quirks and flaws, and ESPECIALLY loving them when life gets tough and makes it difficult for them to be their best self.
You just went through such a devastating tragedy. How in the world could you have possibly been your best self during the grieving of your mother? Grieving is a terrible process, they say "pick yourself up" because you are SO SO down. You DID NOT ask this man for too much AT ALL! And even if you were a "hot mess" during the first few months of your mother's death(which I don't think was the case), if he understood what true love meant, he would've been there for you and loved you for the "hot mess" you during a time where it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to be the best version of yourself. True love isn't about perfection, it's about loving someone through the tears of mourning, through the mood swings of menopause, and working together to overcome those difficult life situations. I feel like this man put a truly unfair expectation on you to hide your emotions from this situation and act like nothing was wrong.
You're right -- you were a bad fit, you should definitely be telling yourself that because you are a loving person and it seems as if he wasn't sure how to love. You deserve so much more than that 🙂 Go out and get it, girl!! 🙂
Beautifully said, J. Thank you for adding this. It's a reminder for us all. #whatmattersmost
I couldnt agree more with that answer. What I've learned over the years is that once divorced, stay divorced . If single, be careful. Men mostly want it both ways and it is utter nonsense that women has to do all to keep the man. The Bible is clear...its a partnership. I do not say once you've slept with him its ok, because it's not. What I saw over the years, women look after themselves nowadays does all to please the man, and yet they wander off. Men can't go without a woman but a woman can very much go without a man. It's difficult, but one has to be happy within oneself first. Most become lonely and need companionship, but at what price. We all scream respect, but put ourselves first. We demand conditions, rather than take AS IS and build it from there. Yes, women want to phone him if he is reluctant etc, BUT if he was interested in the first place, he would've left no stone unturned to contact you.
Once in a relationship men usually are the first to threaten breaking up and then retract it. Why? Because they know its a playing field out there and women are much
too willing to compromise. Thus, women in my opinion should stick their grounds what they are WORTH themselves as in the end, one gets the partner one deserves. One train the other how to treat you. If you are treated badly, once you're a victim but if it continues, then it's one's own doing and fault for going back or try to "fix" it.
You cannot fix something that you are not prepared to own. It's not easy to let go, but in order to find peace and know yourself and your worth, you have to. You will
never regret it. If it is meant to be, it will be. Never push anything or accept it as a failure if a man tells you NO. Rather see it as an opportunity that God has someone else better in mind for you. When will that be? Don't know, our time is not His.
I am not a life coach, I was married for 40 years. Being on my own for 8 years and I saw a lot and talked to a lot of women and men. This is just my opinion.
Beautifully said, Sunet. Thank you for sharing. Experience tells us so much more if we allow it to.
Sunset you have said a mouth full right there!!! BRAVO!! TRUE!!!
Thank you, Jane - this came to me just in time. My man has been rather distant of late, and I know that I need to express to him what my boundaries are. By validating my feelings, I now know with certainty that I am not being selfish or demanding. I am being me - a feeling, loving creature who wants only to be loved in return.
We're having a talk this weekend about this very thing. I have no idea what the outcome will be. He may decide that I am asking too much of him, and decide to break it off. Or, he may decide that I am worth the effort, and he will step up. And that's his choice.
Either way, I am at peace. I am worthy of being loved the way I need to be loved.
Bless you,
Danielle
So glad, Danielle; thank you. And either way, you're always worth the effort. Peace is a wonderful thing. 🙂
Felicia,
I am in a worse situation than you we're in..I am fighting to get out, but my feelings are so tied up in this guy now after 2.5 years, I'm having trouble letting go.
Mine says things worse than what you have heard. I broke up with him twice and was totally manipulated back into the relationship....I'm trying to get out...
You are in a better place...heal yourself so you can find the man that will love you like you want to be loved.
Beautiful advice you've just given yourself, too, MJ.
Greetings Sunshine
Ya know, you are going to be fine. See we woman have a way of bouncing back just like that. (Snap my finger). Why? Because we are made to constantly evolve with bravery. When I was a little girl, my mum gave me a hoola hoop. She said to me. Chile go pon di road and play da hoola hoop gon teach you to put a swirl in your hip and an attitude to match so! So I took the hoola hoop and tried my best not to let it touch the ground. After many tries I mastered it. It made a certain whistle like sound when I finally got it. I knew I was the shit when I could hoola
hoop 5 hoola hoops at the same time. See the attitude to match was the confidence that was created to be brave. So, I say put your hoola hoop on girl and dont let it touch the ground. Bless
Beautiful, Sharri! I felt like I was hoola hoopin right there with you. 🙂
Girl, this answer is gold! I loved it! 🙂
I know exactly how you felt. I was in a one sided relationship. Chipped away at my heart and self esteem for almost 2 years. It was the hardest thing to do...closing the book on him. But he never opened the book on me. Felicia, I hope you see that you just wanted love in return for the love you gave.
"But he never opened the book on me." Wow, Carol. Love how you put that. So telling when you can look at it like that, when you can look at him like that. Thank you.
This nearly identical situation just happened with me. I tried to adjust myself to whatever I thought he wanted me to be because I like him so much. I tried to mirror his actions. But no matter what I did he accused me of coming on too strong or if I layed low I was too non chalant for him. I could never be just what he thought I should be. When I finally spoke up for myself about how frustrated I was he told me to never contact him again. It was pure chaos, he's gone now and I'm much more at peace. 🙂
"... and I'm much more at peace." So glad, Jamie. Peace is always good. 🙂
Hi Felicia,
I have to say that you absolutely did nothing wrong. I have been in the same situation, with a brilliant man who either didn't want to or couldn't access his feelings. I went out with him over 2 years, waiting for him to one day wake up and comfort me, during those times I was in need. He never did and in fact, he got more distant, when I needed him the most. Like I said, I'm not sure if it's because they only want the attention on them or if they don't know how to deal with too many emotions, but whatever the case, he could never support or nurture me the way I wanted. If you stayed longer, you would find yourself putting your own needs and heart aside in order to make them happy. Feel grateful that he ran, in the beginning because it does get harder to move on, as time goes on.
Anyways, you contacted the best mentor around. Soo, hopefully, Jane's advice helped you to see the light and know that you deserve much better for your beautiful self.
Exactly, Steph! And thank you for your sweet words. 🙂
Dear Felicia,
I think Jane has already said it all.
I hope you can see things for what they really were and that it helps you get out of the guilt trip and the sadness you're in.
There were several red flags that stood out for me. You say he started off assessing you and you felt uncomfortable. It seems he was someone who was more interested in checking a list instead of feeling. It's fine, except relationships don't work that way, at least not for women like us. This also leads me to believe he might be guarded and protecting himself and is not necessarily into giving to someone.
He pulled away. That's disinterest. On top of that he left you alone when you needed support the most. Why would you want to be with someone who won't even be there?
And then when you speak your mind he frames it so you feel blamed?
I'm so sorry Felicia, but he's not the one. Get him off the pedestal.
Somebody else will give you everything you deserve.
Big hug to you
Great points you added here, Angel. Thank you.
Poor Felicia, That guy was so cold to her. I almost had frostbite reading it. She deserves the love of her life and he is a barrel scraping. Look forward and forget about him.
Aptly put, Pat. So true.