Here's an email from another one of our beautiful readers, who signed herself DRT.
She's been in a long term relationship for quite a while, and is ready for the next stage, but her boyfriend is not.
Here's her story:
Thanks for your site. I've read a few of the articles, which I have found insightful.
My question is: I've been with my boyfriend for 8 years, I'm in my early thirties and he is nearly forty. We have lived together for most of that time.
I have been ready to settle down and have children for some time now. The time is also right for me career-wise (and may be less so in future due to increasing responsibilities which I'll need some time to get used to).
He has always said we will get married and have children but it always seems to be some vague time in the future. Currently he wants to wait a couple of years until he is the next rung up the career ladder.
He complains that he hasn't lived his life yet and that we don't go out enough. I'll be honest I would prefer a meet up with friends or a day trip rather than go partying. This is the main cause of our arguments.
We generally get on well otherwise and both have our hobbies although not shared.
His takes up a lot of his time and often at short notice which I find frustrating, and he gets annoyed that I won't go with him though I have tried and don't enjoy it.
What worries me also is that he actively tries to avoid events with children, including with my family (I have several young cousins).
I know you don't have to like other people's children to have your own but I would want someone who is an active father involved in family life and events.
I am starting to think that the future I envisaged will not happen.
Should I continue in a relationship with someone I love and enjoy spending time with when we're together or am I going to miss my chance at a family because I wait too long for a man who may not commit?
Signed, DRT
My Response:
Dear DRT,
I hear where you're coming from.
You have all this history and time invested with someone, and then there's the reality of where you are and what you want at this stage of your life, and it sounds like he hasn't come to this point with you.
I see several red flags here, particularly the fact that you say he tries to "actively avoid events with children" - and you want children - and that he's "complaining he hasn't live his life yet and we don't go out enough" - and you prefer to meet up with some friends than go partying.
Since you clearly know what you want, and he's not giving you some real indicators that these are the same priority for him, these would be some real red flags for me if I was looking to get married and have children and this was a top priority for me.
But this has to come from you. You have to come to this for yourself or you won't be able to live with yourself and your decision.
Is he really marriage material or are the two of you too far apart on these points that are at the top of your priority list? Are you willing to take a "wait-and-see" approach to see if he might come around? No one can know the future, but where someone is at now - and how they behave - are the best indicators you have of what you can expect more of.
If you haven't already, I would evaluate just how much you really have in common when it comes to what matters most to you. As I've said in an earlier post, one of the ways you'll know if you've got a keeper is if he's available for the kind of relationship that you want. And I used the example that if you want kids and he doesn't, then he's not available for the type of relationship that you want.
Unfortunately, I hear far too many stories from women who wait and wait and wait some more for some man with so much potential that they've fallen in love with to come around to their page, until their own lives have passed them by. While these are someone else's stories and the only story that matters here is your own, they reveal the reality of where this road often leads.
I have a feeling that that since you're writing to me about this now, you already know your own answers. Deep down, we always do.
Whether it's that pull that urges you to give it just a little more time - and then you set that time frame in your own mind - or that gentle nudging that tells you there's more to life and love and being in relationship with someone you love than this.
Whatever pull feels stronger, DRT, know that this is always about you and what you can live with and what you can't.
Real love - the real kind you're talking about that you choose - is about two people on the same page who want the same thing with each other and are willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen. I don't know of a healthy, loving, fulfilling, and rewarding relationship that can last without that.
But what that looks like specifically can be different for each of us depending on who you are, what you want and what you don't, and what you need to be happy.
It's not about him - you can let him know what you want and what you need to be happy - but you can't change him. He is who he is and he's going to do what he wants to do.
I hope this helps give you some outside perspective, DRT.
I know this isn't an easy decision to make, but regardless of what you decide, the best place to start is the decision to focus on you, to make your own life a priority, and live your own life in a way that reflects your beautiful, authentic, true self with so much to offer, so much to give.
Sometimes all it takes is that conscious shift in our own way of being that creates a new energy that ripples through our relationships and brings about a change in the ones we're with.
Love,
Jane
What do you think DRT should do in this situation? Tell us in the comments!
Truly, I understand.
I've been in simular situation.
You have made it c.f. Lear to.him, if he doesn't
get it now, he never will.
I WAISTED YRS of my priesthood life for some
one who kept making me empty, bottom less
Non fulfilling promises, which never came
about. ..
I saw the red flags, n so did everyone else!
OFCOURSE I chose to ignore them in hopes he
Would change, thinking thst he could never live
without me, me, thinking I could change him
Never happened.
Now looking back, I should of put my running
Shoes on long ago, before.
Now im left with a deteriorating Disease, a mended heart, with
alot of regrets.
I can't change the past, nor can I buy more time.
RUN WHILE YOU CAN!
Live live your life, before its toon late?
So many of us can relate, Rq; thank you for this.
Dear all, thanks for your comments which have given me a lot to think about. I'm not prepared to give up on my chance of a family for this relationship, that is clear to me. It would be better if he said he definitely didn't want children as that would make the decision easier. The question is whether I trust he means it when he says he wants it just not now, and how long I'm willing to wait particularly with it all being on his terms. I've at least come to terms with the fact that he and I want different things right now and that's ok and nobody is wrong. I am going to try and speak to him about children and marriage again having left it for at least a couple of months and see what he says. Funny that he is being more thoughtful and nice to me recently but I'm not sure why. I have definitely decided to just get on with what I want to do for myself in life and have told him to stop blaming me for things that happen in his life like not going out enough as he is responsible for his own behavior. Guess I need to take that advice too! I'll keep you updated with what happens.
I think she should decide if she can live with worst case senerio. A life without children as is rather than what may or may not be.
It is wonderful to have people to bounce things off of who understand and are walking this path right along. Jane, it was good to have your reminder that we all need to expect to have bad days every once in a while and that it is only one day and does not mean that our progress is to be discounted. I am paying special attention to loving myself....I am talking to myself as I would to a friend or one of my children who was struggling and had had a rough day with a bit of backwards stepping. I am telling myself that I am doing a good job and that, of course this is hard, and that it is ok to not be as graceful at it as you would like to be all the time. It is messy and not fun....and kudos for being willing to face it!
So glad, Deborah; this is how we all get through those times together! I once read about some famous author who would get writer's block and instead of beating herself up for it, she would talk to herself in the gentlest of voices, speaking to the little girl within her, telling her it was ok and that she could try again later, after she first took care of whatever needs you had right then. It was a beautiful reminder that even the people who we think have arrived, or the ones who we assume don't worry about any of the things we mere humans do ;), are just like us!
Hi DRT,
8 years is a very long time. If he hasn't lived his life yet, when is he going to reach that point? I hope he is not taking up your time, because you do deserve better. You are worth more than what he is giving you.
Hi DRT 🙂
I'd like to share a little exercise with you that I do sometimes. Imagine your perfect man, who is so into you and willing to share his life with you. Would he be making these excuses? Would he have waited 8 years? Would the man who was so into you sit there and say that he's not ready to commit because he hasn't lived his life yet? No! To the man who is willing to commit to you-You would be his life, the centre of his world, you would be the life he is excited to be living right now 🙂 Would you even be needing to have those conversations with him about wanting a commitment? No-because the right man would have never waited it out like this, he would have been chasing a commitment with you before you even had the time to wonder about it all 🙂 I'd say give this little thought process a try and your doubts and questions about all of this might be answered 🙂 I feel your situation very much, I have been there. Good luck to you 🙂
Love this exercise, Sarah; so telling! Thanks for sharing this with all of us. 🙂
The first person you have to learn to love is yourself! It takes a lot of time and effort to do this. If you love YOU, no one will be allowed to use or abuse You because you will be very protective of YOU. Treat yourself like you want others to treat you. Do things to make yourself happy. If a guy doesn't want what you want, that is ok. This means he is not the guy for you. Then love yourself enough to move on. Don't waste your time trying to convince him to want what you want. YOU will be sorry in the end if you do. And DRT if you accidentally get pregnant to keep your 8 year not ready boyfriend, you will regret it. Don't wait for guys to get themselves together. Everyone is grown and either you are on the same page or not. Two conversations with a guy will tell you this if you listen well enough to what is being said. Keep yourself busy.
"Everyone is grown and either you are on the same page or not" - so true, Carolyn; and yet so not the answer so many of us want to hear!
OK Ok LOL just trying to give you some tough love. It is frustrating to see so many beautiful women torturing themselves. They are trying really hard to "make" these relationships work! When someone loves you it comes easy. It is like a beautiful song. It just flows. We can't play both sides of the relationship. If you find yourself doing this, you would be happier alone. And by God don't go looking for the person who feels you are his "everything". Believe me, that grows old quick. After a while you will be saying "isn't there anything you want to do?" LOL We all want a healthy relationship with people who are whole. You know. Not "you complete me". When two whole people get together they enjoy a great relationship.
I love your straight up advice, Carolyn; you provide that voice that's been there - but so gets this! - that adds so much to these conversations! I'd love to hear your story about how you came to this for yourself 🙂
You want to hear the story?? Let me tell you the short version of the story. I was book smart, but knew very little about people. I never lived anywhere for long and was always the "new kid". People I was drawn to as "friends" weren't friends at all. But I didn't know that. When I became a teenager things were a little more stable. I put the S in stupid when it came to relationships, because I had no good role models. As I got older and began to pay attention to what was actually going on, I began to control MYSELF and things got a lot better. The best man I ever had was also the worst man I ever had. It wasn't until I got much older that I realized what he was going through. I married a different guy who put up a good front until we got married and had kids. I got divorced and became involved with a guy who should have been unavailable. We were supposed to just be friends and It lasted a life time. He made the ultimate mistake and I separated myself from him. I keep myself busy, so if I stumbled on a relationship that is exactly what it would be. And the man would have to be able to keep up. There are young women I try to encourage. I try to keep them from making the same mistakes I have. We go over the scenario and if they want to play it out, they do. When they fall down I pick them up and help them start over. I would love to have a great relationship with a guy, but I am a no nonsense person. I believe people should do what they want to do, but if it means being in the circus I'm not interested. The worse thing in the world to me is to be heartbroken. There is so much beauty in life, why waste our time with that. God is good and he will always provide. We just have to believe it.
Thanks for sharing, Carolyn. We learn so much the hard way, it's beautiful to hear how you're helping others as well. Thank you. It's so true; you can't change anyone else; you can only decide if you want to be a participant in what they choose to do.
In the book, "Forgive for Love," Dr. Fred Luskin has the same advice that Jane has and sets it up with these two steps.
1. Ask yourself what you really want (e.g., a loving, committed marriage with children; or a satisfying relationship with someone who shares my religious beliefs).
2. Then ask yourself whether this person is your BEST chance of having [x]--because he will be able to give you what you want and need. Don't let yourself get lost in whether he's the best you can get or what time you've already invested. Is he, right now, the best person who can give you [x]?
If he's not, then the experiment is over. You were in a relationship to test whether this person could bring you what you need and the test has run its course. Don't beat yourself up. At some point, the results up until now have shown that he was our best chance but now you have new information, new insight, and this relationship is no longer your best opportunity at having the life you want for yourself.
If he is, then you need to forgive him for the things he can't give you outside of [x] and forgive yourself, too.
I cary these 2 steps with me because they help give me clarity and simplicty at times when decisions seem so complicated and heart-wrenching. The other thing I carry with me is something Jane says often, "Do what will give you the most peace and happiness with the least amount of regrets."
Thank you Piper, I will try to use this structure to help me stay out of the destructive self hate and anger. It really is simple. I had q therapist qt the beginning of my current relationship and after my description of this guy she said she believed that this might be a good experiment for me....but that he wasn't my 'The Relationship. ' I, of course, did not want to believe her. I had been out of relationships for awhile trying to recover from two abusive marriages and I was champing at the bit for my 'The Relationship.' But it really was an experiment, I just got lost in middle of it by forgetting that I I was the one doing the choosing and I shut down and gave all that power away to him. Now I am taking it back as best I can without being mean or destructive. I am firmly stating who I am and asking for what is beat for me and I am also giving him encouragement to see what is good in him. I do not know what will happen, but I know I absolutely must go back to seeing this as an experiment where I am choosing not. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Your welcome Deb! Just look in the mirror & see you.
It starts there I think. It started for me!
Now don't get me wrong. I used to come from a bad relationship, many years ago.
And people can change if they dare to look at themself in the mirror.
It's not your responsibility if a close family member or husband etc has
Addictions. Some choose in this life the dark path.
If he or she is dragging you into the darkness, I think it's then time to say "enough"!
I have a brother who has chosen the dark side Deb. Let me tell you it is so ugly, but
It's his life. And I just said "enough" , go & live your life. I am not going that path!
This doesn't mean I hate him. I pointed where he could get healthy . I just don't want to play the role of a "healer " or "therapist " .
My life and soul are precious to me!
I hope you see that you can choose from today.
You can choose love & , light and kindness or darkness & anger.
Don't be to sad! I think you just need to wake up from this sadness &
Make a commitment with yourself!
Never think that your the only one, I shall pray for you just now!
Bless you !
Love hearing your process, Piper; thank you for sharing!
"No one can know the future, but where someone is at now - and how they behave - are the best indicators you have of what you can expect more of." I reread Jane's response and this statement jumped out at me.
It took me a very long time to come to that for myself, Deborah; especially when I wanted to believe with all my heart that the future would somehow - some way - be different!
I wish there was a faster way to get there. I am really struggling with all of this. I feel like I have it one day and the next I am right back in the middle of the confusion and self hate. today is not a good day...and I just want it all to be different. I want him to get it. I want it to be different.....and I want to be the dream I hold so dear.
Hi Deborah,
There is a fast way ! You really don't want "him" to change.
You want you Deborah to change. You want to open your heart to life & to
The world.
How is a new man going to come into your heart, when you feel stuck..
But when you have this open and kind attitude towards life
& friends & animals and all this around us.
Then when "he or she" comes, it will be like the cherry on the ice cream.
I think Jane has thought me this. Now off course it took a long road to feel it like this .
We may not experienced the same, but I know the dance of these
Emotions... They will get you no where!
( I still get these emotions some days, but accept them and move on.)
I hope you find peace & know that love is kind.
And as Jane said many times, love is not complicated!
🙂
Than you Maris, You are right. I am in the process of stating to him and to myself who I am....who I really am and what I really expect and how I really see life. I am discovering more and more of me. I keep forgetting that his caring about who I am is not the last word on that. I am just not turning out to be what he had on mind for his 'dance'. Thank you for talking with me. Sometimes I just feel very small and very alone. Yesterday was one of those days. And I have been struggling with a bad cold all week, too. So I know that has been coloring my outlook as well. I am going to get up this morning and take my dog out for a walk and breath deeply and smile qt people and get a good strong cup of coffee and embrace my world and all that I am blessed with today. He may or may not choose to be a pqrt of it....I embrace that too.
And remember that it's always ok to have "one of those days" or times when you feel like you've gone backwards from how far you've come. We all have them! They're a reminder of how real we are, how very human we are, and how in touch we are with our feelings. It's on those days or in those times that I remember to be extra kind, extra loving, extra compassionate and forgiving of myself because our first reaction is usually the opposite; to beat ourselves up some more and be all too hard on ourselves for "failing", for not being strong enough, for not being this or that or whatever unrealistic expectation we've put on ourselves. Or we feel ashamed since we've just been so proud of ourselves for how far we've come, and now here we are back to square one. You're not.
They're just our ever-changing feelings. It's just one day. Don't make it any more than that. Feel it, accept it, and know that this, too will pass. Tomorrow is always a new day!
Hi DRT, No matter what phase of life you are in, this is difficult. I see the same red flags that Jane pointed out already. I remember Jane saying in one of her other posts that love is never complicated. I know there will always be the need to compromise at times, or to give when you really don't feel like it because you are already very tired, etc. But these are simply the workings out of a healthy relationship. It is these big differences in how we see life, in how we treat people, in what we make important in our lives and where we pour our energy that are the concerns. I looking at my current relationship of approximately one year and evaluating these things right now. I, too, came to Jane's website because I was looking for articles about emotional unavailability, alcohol and drug addiction and rageful outbursts. And, yes, just the idea that I am looking for support about these things are HUGE red flags in and of themselves! However, as we all do, I was arguing with reality and not wanting to admit that ONE MORE TIME I had chosen unwisely. One thing I have come to see is that it is very true that we must focus our energy on ourselves and on growing and learning. I pray, and I have been praying to really see, to really hear, to really learn what it is that I am missing here. That is why I continue to read all of Jane's posts and the posted responses of the readers. This forces me to look at reality as I hear it over and over again. And it is always the same. We are always wanting a reciprocal love and companionship that is just not possible with our current partner because of who THEY are. And, though it is sad, we are still beautiful, intelligent, kind, funny, compassionate, caring and lovable. And it all keeps coming back to me....not him. He is who he is and this has nothing to do with my worth, attractiveness, intelligence, desires, ability to love, compassion, or anything of the other things I tell myself if I could only fix this area he would be able to love me as I deserve to be loved. I have not been able to make the break yet....though I see that it is inevitable. I am stuck because I feel that empty place where my dreams with him used to be and it hurts. However, it does not hurt even one tenth as badly as the pain of beating myself up for being me hurts. THAT pain is destructive unto death! And I will not drag myself down there even one more time! So I am currently attempting to pull my emotional investment back into myself. I am refocusing.....sometimes many, many times in the day.....my thoughts onto myself and onto the people and things I already have in my life that are loving and kind to me. I don't want to be discounted any more. I don't want to be girl-in-a-box who can be taken out when he desires and then put back on the shelf. I want to be loved all the way for exactly who I am by someone who sees me, knows me and chooses ME....as I will see him, know him and choose HIM! Whatever you choose to do DRT, be at peace and know that you are loved and cared for and that you are not alone. And please know that your very struggle with this, the fact that you chose to write to Jane in the first place, shows your true character and your desire to not make this decision frivolously.
Jane another great article!! I had to learn the hard way, if that person is not giving you what you want then let go and allow the universe to give you what YOU want. Thisis about YOU not him...he is doing what he wants to do!! DRT do you!! I have learned that if the two of you are on the same page, all the other will fall into place. I also learned that sometimes you have to step back and allow that person to see life without you and then see if they still want the party life and no children.!! IJS!!! I am on the Journey of seeing if stepping back allowing him to see life without me. Don't know how it will end but I am much stronger and I know what I WANT!! Since I know what I WANT I do not have time to waste on nothing less!!! MY TRUTH!!!
Dear DRT,
Wow 8 years is a very long time! Jane said it perfectly, only you can make that decision it may be hard but in the end you have to do what is going to make DRT happy. I guarantee if the shoe was on the other foot in the end you'd either have to marry him and have children or he'd find someone who shared those interests as he. This is a tough situation because you can't possibly be with someone for 8 yrs and not love them however you have to ask yourself could you actually be happy in life knowing that you didn't have kids or get married or could you even see yourself being happy having one or the other and not both? Don't give up your hearts desire and dream of being married and having children, because real, true, and unending love wouldn't make you give your hearts desire up..compromise in some areas maybe but not giving up marriage and a family. Just my opinion I pray things change for the better for you!
Great point you make here, Chrystal. When you turn it around like this to what he would do, it reminds us how easy it seems for everyone else to do what they need to do to be happy and get their own needs met, and yet, for so many of us, when it's our turn to do this, we attach so much to our own decisions because we're so used to living by someone else's terms, we forget that it's our birthright to have the kind of life we want - and it's not selfish or wrong. It's called happiness!
I hear what you are saying , and it's almost as though we have to have it enforced to us ,when we know what we want to achieve from a relationship , and what what we actually get from that relationship is two different things . We know something is not quite right ...... And we just keep trying , hoping ... Wishing... Until , one day .... And then we wait ......
It's not about knowing .. Because we do
It's not about hoping ... Because we do
It's not about trying ... Because , we try so hard
It's fighting against the uneviatable , the break up
The pain of it all , is just too awful
So in my case , I reasoned with myself , and said ok , I'm not going to put myself through that , but I will start making extra dates with my friends , I will book for courses of things I enjoy doing , I will develop my life and my interests . And this person that is not on the same page as me , will either fall to one side , or fall in with me . But , at least I will have discovered me ... And what I like to do and be And by then I will be so engrossed in it . , and if the break up happens , It will not be that traumatic . And if so happens that the person was wearing a hat without realizing that yes, maybe he does want marriage and children , and he only realizes this when his partner starts developing his/her own interests , all wel and good ...and if he/she doesn't want that , then you have developed within yourself to walk alone .
LOVE THIS!!!
Beautifully put, Tee; thanks for this heartfelt glimpse into the real-life process of how you can live your own life with the reality of what is. Beautiful!
Dear DRT,
8 years is a long time.. I am single. I mean 8 years of wishing he will change
His mind or maybe this year he will tell me "green light "..
I think you need to tell your man what you desire and want, be very clear!
And see what he tells you.
If he does not want to have children , that's the truth.
I can speak for myself . When I feel angry or sad ( like I felt many times)
It is because was in war with the truth! I could not see the truth, I was fighting it.
And this gives off course stress and anxiety!
So I wish you get some peace first inside. And then decide to deal
With the truth! ( this could mean finding a new man, going to the sperm bank etc)
Don't choose out of anger or fear!
I like the article!
P.s.
I know women who have choose to stay with the man.
But accept they will not have kids with him.
So they choose to stay and love him, knowing the child wil not
Come. But they are in peace, because they stay behind their
Choice.
"I know women who have choose to stay with the man. But accept they will not have kids with him.So they choose to stay and love him, knowing the child will not come. But they are in peace, because they stay behind their choice." - Exactly, Maris; this is why the most important thing is being honest with yourself about who you really are and what you truly want, because if you're trying to convince yourself you can do this when you really can't, you'll only end up miserable living your life on someone else's terms instead of your own.
Yes but I know someone who has done this and the guy eventually left her for someone else he didn’t have kids with her.
She know regrets her choice. If motherhood is something you want.....Why is he denying you that does he really love you.
Take a cue from Nancy Sinatra - buy some boots - and start walking. I have heard of women in this position who did that, found the right man, and started a family. Only then did the one who wasn't ready start lamenting about what could have been. Well, better him than her.
So true, Jackie.