One of our lovely readers, Sunflower, writes to ask if she should move in with boyfriend who says he loves her, but whose actions may tell a different story ...
Here's what she wrote:
I met this guy 12 years ago, he loves me, but he is commitment phobic.
After 5 years, I gave him an ultimatum, knowing it was the wrong thing to do. I told him since other women are calling you it seems to me that you want to have an open relationship, let's do that.
I will date other guys, too.
He said fine, but when he saw me having dinner with someone else he totally changed and got really upset. He called me everyday, wanted me back.
I refused for a month.
One day I gave up. I left a guy with great potential, and went back with him hoping he would change.
It didn't last long. He moved 85 miles away.
I was happy, because it was easy to let the relationship go.
Hoped we'd find someone else. He found other women, he told me, but they never worked out. He was here every other weekend, or I was there, for 2 years. He again moved, this time far away from Florida to Texas.
Again I said, this time we will let it go...
He flew one week a month or sent me a ticket to go there.
He said he loves me but marriage is not necessary. Wants me to move with him.
I am afraid of moving with him with no commitments. He is very educated. He has a teacher, engineering, and a medical doctor degree. I only have 2 years college that I never finished.
I am a registered medical assistant. I make 30 thousand a year, he makes 200 thousand. He also is very frugal, on the other hand.
He really trusts me, he tells me his weaknesses, his problems at work, his childhood problems with his dad, every job. He is like my husband but we're not legally married.
He is moving back and I'm confused even more. I don't know what to do.
I also lost my job of 21 years 4 months ago. I found other jobs but not what I really want or not on my background. He never ask me if I was doing OK monetarily. He knows I don't have a mortgage but there are other bills to pay.
I'm afraid what is going to be if I move in with him.
His mom lives in another country and visits him 6 months a year. He treats her bad, yells at her, tells her to go to her room because he has company when I visit. I always include her and encourage her to stay with us, she doesn't have to go.
I worry that he will do that to me too.
Shall I move with him? Even without promises? We are not young any more we are in our 50's.
- Sunflower A.M.
My Response:
Listen to your fears, Sunflower. There's a reason you have them.
You have every reason to be afraid of moving in with him! Look at his track record. Look at how he treats you. Look at how he treats his mother. Look at just how clear his behavior is making this decision for you.
Ask yourself what you would say to your best friend if she was asking you these questions. In your heart of hearts, you will always find your answers.
You’re a beautiful soul. You listen to him, you hear what he needs. You hear his stories of his problematic childhood with his dad whose approval he undoubtedly wanted so badly but could never get, and it tugs on every single one of your heart strings.
If he can get what he needs from you with no commitment, consider what incentive he has to give you that commitment? What motivation does he have to do anything different if he can have you on his terms, without any consideration for yours?
I can’t get these words out of my head, Sunflower. "I lost my job of 21 years 4 months ago", you wrote. "He never asked me if I was doing OK." That's concerning. Is this what you want from someone who says he loves you?
Yes, Sunflower. You have every reason to believe he is going to do that - all of that he's done to the other woman in his life - his mother - to you, too.
Words are cheap – and so easy to say. It’s the actions that tell you whether it’s love or something else.
Marriage is not necessary? Do you believe it’s necessary? How you feel about marriage matters just as much as what he thinks about it. If it matters to you, it is necessary.
Even the way he’s suggesting it could be necessary or not, shows you the way he’s compartmentalizing your relationship to minimize his emotional investment.
Necessary.
It begs the question, might love not be necessary, too? And then what else? And more concerning, doesn’t it matter what might be necessary for you?
Listen to your fears. They’re not unfounded. They’re supported by actions and behaviors that are giving you a glimpse into what your life would be like if you move forward with this man. This is your intuition telling you everything you need to know.
Not even with promises! Promises mean absolutely nothing without consistent behavior over a long period of time to back them up. At any age!
Without knowing more details about your situation, I can't tell you what you should do, but I hope this helps you make your decision. In the end, it has to come from you. It has to be a decision you can live with.
But whatever you decide, choose YOU first, Sunflower.
Choose the most loving thing you can do for yourself – let that be your guide in everything you do - and everything else will fall into place. You know far more than you give yourself credit for. You always can trust what you know in your heart to be true.
Love,
Jane
What advice do you have for our beautiful friend, Sunflower? Share your words with her below in the comments.
i actually wrote something for myself which i say over and over each day. it really helps. it goes like this:
Every man wants something from ME as a woman
the question is: do I really want HIM and does he LIVES in a way that is to MY standards and expectations?
it doesnt matter if there is anything about ME a man does not like, its HIS problem not MINE
I do not need any valuation from a MAN however MEN expects ME to give it
it doesnt matter HOW a MAN acts around me there always will be something of any MAN in my life that i can learn from
I am saying this to myself each day. I feel much better already although I am so hurt still. But everyone here is correct I did delete all pictures etc. And each time I think of him as he still sms begging, I just immediately do something else to try to not think about him at all. As WHAT he did to me was devastating I know that now.
Thank you all for the wonderful support here as slowly but surely I am recovering and KENYA YOU RULE !
Be so proud of yourself for getting here, Gerda. These affirmations/reality checks/written reminders help keep us on the path we know we need to be on! Thank you for sharing and being a part of this beautiful community of women who understand like few else can! 🙂
Oh my... move it with him! Who care about the commitment. If he want's you to live with him, love that you can be there for him, work your profession and enjoy your life. WHY is that such an issue when you seem to be so connected to him? What is "marriage" so important? Marriage is a document. Having children is not based on a marriage document. It is base on 2 people being together and having a blessing of a new life. It's not his responsibility, it is the responsibility of have a beautiful child. But if it is not about the children, why is no marriage such an issue? What is the fear?
Lord, I wish I could understand why men and women just can't be together without any expectations.
Why would you advise someone to move in with a potential abuser?
I had been dating on n off with a person like that for 8 years I had tried many times before to end it n he would resist each time. The last time I tried which was last November he gave me a key to his apt to give me a sense of security n to show how serious he was about me. I always suspected he was seeing other women, I never directly told him, he would tell me to stay over very often. I would find pantys, lipstick on his bed on glasses left on night stand. I would tell myself that I didn't care. But really how can anyone honestly say that they dont care someone is taking u for a fool? One night he had been texting me to go over I said I'm out having dinner with my sister. Of course he was upset n said I didn't care about him n that I was always busy. Well I went over like 30mins after n much to my surprise he didn't answer the door, I tried the key but he had locked it from inside. I stood there calling him n ringing door bell n nothing. I was SO mad n so hurt. I went home n cried myself to sleep. I knew he was there with someone . It took him a whole day to call n told me that since I had told him that I was out with my sister that he took a sleeping pill n fell asleep. Yeah sure, I'm going to believe that. The last straw was when he told me in that same conversation that I should not b showing up unannounced. I said then why did u give me a key? He replied I'm just saying. Now that opened my eyes. And I said no more putting up with his bull. He broke my heart so many times my heart is numb. The last months he treated me badly I was always to blame for everything. he never made time for me, I could never count on him for anything. My mom passed away when I told him all he did was say I'm sorry. He didn't bother to go over to my house to be with me. A week later he calls n blames me for his absence at funeral because I didn't tell him when services were going to be held. At that moment I knew I had to cut him from my life. When I met him he was VERY FAT about 300 lbs. he started losing n has lost over a hundred pounds. He gained a lot of self esteem n he is no longer the person I fell in love with. I told him in the last argument that I liked him better before he lost all the weight. This summer im more than sure he met someone new n has forgotten about me. I went on vacation n I never heard from him. Which is a blessing. I not once missed or thought about him till now that I read these letters. I know I'm better off on my own. I've been through a lot n I've become a stronger person.
I think the big question is to ask yourself "Why do you keep taking him back?" And forget about what he wants. What are you looking for in a relationship? I dated someone similar with commitment issues. We dated on and off for about 7 years. I let him go and married someone else. Years later he found me again while I was going through a divorce. We briefly got back together and then separated. Every now and again I get a text. I keep him as a friend and no more. I really would be concerned how he treats others. Sounds like he can be abusive. I would definitely watch for that red flag. As far as age goes. I'm in my 50's too. If it's the age thing that is bothering you, don't settle. There is hope. My father remarried in his 70's to a great woman. He had a good marriage with my mother for almost 40 yrs until she passed. He met my stepmother at church. She gave him a second life. He's 83 now. So keep looking, he's out there and he will be able to give you what you need. Don't let this one drag you down. If he needs a friend, be his friend. Me personally, I wouldn't move in.
Hi Sunflower
I am only going to say 2 things
1. 12 years? Think of the life/relationship/family you could have created in that time.
2. ANY MAN who mistreats or disrespect his own Mother is NOT a good man and will not respect you.
Please seriously think before you even consider going any further with him. Find the strength. You deserve so much more!
Karen.
These men resist when we try to leave, not because they truly are willing to do the work to be emotionally present... But because we take their crap. It doesn't work out long term with the other women they cheat with because those women don't take their crap. Pretty simple when u break it down.
The longer you stay in a situation where your not being respected, the more you break. The more you break, the harder it is to get out and be the wonderful person you are destined to be!!
Are you happy with him? Truly happy? All relationships have hard times of course, but overall, are you happy?
Or do you feel anxious and sad most of the time?
It doesn't matter how old we are, a partner should be someone that adds beauty and happiness to our lives, that makes us better, not worse.
That gives us peace and not makes us wonder where we are most of the time.
We feel lonely, I know, but really think if this relationship is good for you. If he's a good man to you.
You are not alone here.
Wish you all the best!!
Very powerful to read RP! These people never change. You can't make them change but you can change your feelings toward them!
So true!
We have a really hard time accepting this, I include myself here. But some people we have to let go, no matter how hard it is. They won't change...
Very well stated Kenya! All true! Unfortunately for you this man is narcissistic and emotionally unavailable and emotionally stunted . He could only change through ongoing, intense counselling. It has everything to do with what he experienced in childhood. As Kenya stated, he is limited. He just does not possess the capacity for long term, sustained emotion. Run like hell!! Enjoy your time by yourself or with friends instead of all of this emotional upheaval! If you so desire-the right person is out there!
I have been involved with a man for 45 years now. We never married nor lived together. Our families are very intertwined, he is more of a grandfather to my grandchildren than is my ex-husband. Problem is, he cheats. He is there for me, he is always here when I need him. I am there for him emotionally, financially, and physically but I am not enough. Worse is that he lies about it over and over again. He cheated on his wife all the time he was married and justified it by saying she didn't want sex with him. He is also emotionally and verbally abusive and manipulative and controlling. So, why do I stay? Years of investment, willingness to settle, and conditioning myself to think this is all I deserve. Truth of the matter is the problem is mine, not his. He is being who he is, who he's shown me he is. I have not heard him, I have ignored his actions. I have placed all my thoughts and ideals around who I want him to be and then I am hurt and disappointed when he is himself. Reality is, I have only 2 choices - accept him for who he is and acknowledge he will never change and simply settle for the relationship for exactly what it is OR I can let go and move on. Putting conditions on another person, giving ultimatums, screaming, fighting, yelling will not change them into who you want them to be - even if they wanted to, men do not change. What you see is what you get. Nothing more, nothing less. Your only question for yourself ? "Is it enough?" For me, at this point, the answer is yes but I will tell you. I am at the point now where I don't care and little of what he does affects me one way or another. I am happy when I am not around him and I do what I want to do. I enjoy my time when I am with him but I no longer care what he does when he is away. I am growing away from him but it has been a very long time coming. I would only tell you to be true to yourself, see things as they are, not as you want them to be. Then make your choices and be happy about them; you get to decide what is right for you. I would encourage you to resist living with him though - married or not, living with another person puts completely different stresses on any relationship so really think about how much it will cause you to sacrifice and compromise based on what you see and what you know about him. I wish you clarity and strength!
Oh my goodness. You just described my husband. We've been married for about six months now and you know this man is that controlling, manipulative, verbally abusive man you described. I want to RUN AWAY!!!
When we first started dating, he wanted to spend every day with me, I did not even want to date anyone seriously. He was talking marriage our first date! He texted me all the time, told me how beautiful he thought I was, how much he missed me (but I saw through the bull and did not buy into that game) We actually became friends after he stopped trying to sweet talk me.
I told him to chill on that marriage talk because I was not really ready for any kind of commitment. I've been single all of my life, besides an occasional date here and there or I dealt with the non-committing type. I had been through enough jerks and I was not willing to let go of my sanity to seriously date anyone else. Little did I know this one would turn out the same way or worse!
Long story short, he convinced me to marry him and I really loved him so I did. Then he started turning into a devil.
The problem is we are friends. He does things for me, but the bare minimum. He will have money, but will only give me a fraction of it. We live together and he moved in with me. I still pay the majority of the bills and I even have been paying when we go out sometimes.
He is so inconsiderate and came into my house and took over everything. Criticizes every single thing. I am a heavy set woman and he talks about my weight, calls the things in my house ugly, told me one of my hairstyles was ugly, told me I should do squats to round out my but and I should get breast implants, actually said to me that nobody wants me, he has called me crazy and says I've run other men away, everything I own is never good enough, I've bought him birthday gifts and he has sold them and told me to buy him something better, we went out to an event and he left me in a dark, cold parking lot alone while he ran into the building because he was cold, I've caught him texting other women even on the morning we were getting married while I went to get my hair done! He has made me cry, leave my own house to get away from him, he treats sex like it's a chore and sometimes he holds out on me, he looks at other women up and down while I'm right in front of him, he tells me he wants to leave me because I'm immature and insecure and crazy, and he says he feels weird being with only one woman because he is used to dating several at a time. And in no way do I think I'm special or different and that he won't cheat on me too, he just has not had the chance to do so yet that I know of. He locks down his phone so I can't get to it and I always feel like he is hiding something, which he is.
I've told him several times I'm not cut out for this. This is my first ever relationship and I feel miserable and insane most of the time. For years I wanted to know what it felt like to be in a relationship. He is super moody, does not like to do the same things I do, he is a different culture so he expects me to conform, and he even deleted messages I posted on his social media on a picture I took of him at MY parents house! I used to give him hugs goodbye in the morning and one day as I reached to give him a hug, he asked me what I got out of it. Just yesterday I tried to give him a hug to thank him for cooking dinner and he walked by me and said save that, just give me a backrub later. HORRIBLE JERK!
When I write this and I'm reading it for myself, I realize that I need to do a self check. I still have some things wrong with me if I allowed any man to come into my life with nothing and take everything from me.
That's not to say he's bad all the time. He does some nice things, as all devils do. But then he goes and adds them up taking a tally of all the things he has done for me. No matter how nice he is, the pain of the harsh words he has used against me, the horrible way he has treated me, the trust he broke, will never go away. I hurt every day, even in so-called happy times. Every time I hear a text, I think of another woman. He always threatens to leave me saying I don't want to go back to my sad miserable life. Wow! So to him, he is doing me some sort of favor by being with me. But at the same time he is afraid I am cheating on me (trying to justify what he's doing). Little does he know there are men, finneeeeee accomplished me who do want me. They've been trying. But I am a woman of integrity so until this is over, I don't really entertain them much. I've got to work on my own mental/emotional health.
I am mad at myself. I miss him and can't be away from him at the same time. But I know how unhealthy this is. I grew up in this kind of abuse for years and I've gotten myself into one of those relationships. I tried to avoid this for so long. This kind of relationship is exactly the reason it took me until age 35 to even get into a serious relationship.
This man does not respect or love me. He only wants me for his own benefits and has done everything in his power to break me.
But this woman does not break easily. I've been knocked down before. I've been mistreated and disregarded all my life.
I thought for once, he was different.I thought finally here is a guy who would cherish me and love me. He has never even said he loves me, at all.
But he is not capable. He has cheated on every woman he has been with. He sees women crying and laughs at their pain and heartbreak. I will NEVER give him that satisfaction again. He saw me about to cry one day, and instead of comforting me, he threw a sex toy at me and told me he was going to punish me by making me sleep alone and told me I'd need the sex toy. Because again, he was holding out. Unreal! When we went shopping for wedding rings, he was going to by the cheapest thing ever and I had to get it on MY credit and I had to pay the rest of it off. He only bought me a $180 ring and told me he couldn't afford much, but then turned around and bought a 3,000 car!!! WTF!
I am not the woman he will stomp on in his web of crazy. I realize I deserve better, and despite what he says, I CAN AND WILL DO BETTER THAN HIM. I deserve a man who wakes up in the morning and says I love you, who texts me and checks on me, who can't wait to be with me, who wants to build a life with me, who only wants me, who would give his last dollar to make me happy and who wants nothing more than to make me happy.
I took off that ring and it's staying off. I am going to rebuild my self-esteem, get back in the gym, work on my relationship with God and my family and friends, and repair my own heart. Despite his efforts to tear me down, it did the opposite. It made me love myself even more and really look at myself for the beautiful, smart, hardworking, big hearted person I am.
This selfish creature saw my big heart and took advantage. I know, people like this stay miserable. I on the other hand will thrive and reap all of God's blessings.
I am detaching myself from him slowly mentally and emotionally. I will no longer reward a man who can't respect me.
I'm moving on and no longer waiting on any man to validate my awesomeness!
Soon to be single!!!!!! And I can't wait!!!!
No contact means no texts, no letters, no phone calls, no emails, no messages between friends, no pigeons, no drive bus, no stalking their social media or websites - NOTHING. You don't send, and you don't respond.
Also, delete or throw away pictures, letters, memento, gifts, you shared or exchanged. Too easy to fall back into reminiscing.
You can just stop, or you can send him a SHORT note telling him not to contact you anymore.
It's the only way you will heal and move on.
Otherwise, contact delays your healing and moving away from them.
Kenya, that was so well written and soooo true! I also tend to get stuck on the go-nowhere merry go round with men. The no contact is the best way to move forward from men like this, and you just reminded me to stop looking at old pictures/emails. Reminiscing is still holding on.
Sunflower, I hope you are able to truly listen to your gut on this one. I hope you come to realize that you are worthy of more than a one-sided relationship.
With men like this, you have to CUT THEM OFF.
In Sunflower's letter and in Gerda's comment above, you both have this back and forth pattern with these men. These men rely on the "fallback" girls...these are women that they know they can always come back to. Some men have one fall back girl, some have several - one for each category of their life (emotional, sexual, financial, etc). As you both know, men like this rope you at first because they are charismatic and they are perfect "on paper," but emotionally they are not fit for healthy, emotionally intimate full time relationships. They don't want the responsibility, yet they want YOU to be fully committed and "all in" heart and soul.
When there's a breakup or rift in the relationships go, they either want to be "friends" or they want to keep in touch. We let them because we love them so much and keep holding they'll "get it" and realized how much we love them and are invested X in them - and they will invest back. But they don't... Why? Because they are limited. It is simply not IN THEM to be what we need long term. Sure, they can do it sporadically or even for a while, but they can't sustain the emotionally and mental intention and selflessness that a true loving and healthy relationship requires.
How do I know?
Because I was on this merry go round with a man for 5 years till he hurt me so deeply and badly and I choose to hop off.
You have to completely go no contact and choose to work on your emotional state. Delve into why you needed this relationship so badly that you were willing to accept less than you deserve? Why does it have to be THIS man? Work on being whole and happy within yourself so that you repel foolishness like this.
Blessings to you ladies. You are worth your weight in gold. Realize that!
Ohh my word this is me to the T. At the age of 57.....no consideration for me whatsoever when I am in need. But I have to be there for him all the time. Its been over 5 years, nothing. whatever sunflower said is going on in MY life as well. Its so hurting. Before I start venting and hopefully some advice inbetween let me assure you men like this ARE SEEING other women but refuse for us to do so as well.....that i discovered lately in my horror. But I am determined not to go back this time as this is again the 100th time he is ignoring me for weeks. I am getting a crystal clear message that he doesnt want to commit but want all the goody goodies. He doesnt want to go but wont stay either UNLESS he feels like it. I actually stopped talking laughing etc as no matter what I do it has NO impact whatsoever. I tried a life couch I tried so many things but he wont step up ever in NO situation whatever and as soon as I am struggling and I get PAID help for things to be done like geyser pipes etc, then I am accused of being unfaithful.
I just cannot do this anymore. And then he sends these smse each day saying he loves me..........but REFUSES to talk to me or see me . He did so with his ex wife he did so with his prior girlfriend and he is doing it with me. Promises were made and nothing came through. I actually moved in with him PER HIS REQUEST and a week later was told to move out again. This continued on and off for two years. I am done. When men do this its causing havoc in TRUST . What he doesnt realize is that by now my heart is ice cold and I do not believe ONE WORD he is uttering. NO DO NOT MOVE IN WITH HIM EVER until the night of the wedding and from what i gather from my boyfriend past with his ex wife, he will do the same after married....what THEN? And let me assure you I had some time to think over 5 years of having this, imagine what a life with him would be as his ex wife and kids used to go to her parents for weeks on end due to this. That made me THINK lately. So should you. Its heartbreaking I know, but really, we do not need this at our age we do not we do not we do not Men like this never change... how low is our self esteem with this. We like a puppet and they the master. Sunflower, all the times I did things for him, tried to diplomatically talked to him, fixed his stuff, lived out of suitcases and had to leave EARLY in the mornings its is not right. Not ONCE when I encountered problems was he there not once. My daughter passed away and i was left ignored again prior and i was desperate for assistance etc and he was not available at all he actually accused me of sleeping around and when HE decided to answer his phone weeks later, I showed him her casket IN the casket etc. He didnt even apologise. So no, DO NOT MOVE IN WITH HIM AND start taking care of yourself take up art take up whatever else and go on other dates if you need to. I am done with men for good. This was too extreme Its HARD but I have to think about myself we are worth much more than handouts and I do not think it has anything to do with whatsoever, as one is in charge of your OWN life and manage it by yourself. It has to do with the mere fact they want freedom and all the friends with benefits that comes with it coupled with the child in them who cannot accept responsibility, leaving US hanging on for dear life.....and the years wasted, because we love them and they know it.
I want to tell you a little story about what happened to a friend of mine which I visited yesterday. She had the same thing for 8 years went ahead and married him they married now 2 years and wouldnt you know it, she is left alone at home now for 5 weeks....he doesnt return her calls etc no money for her etc and she is 71.....he is now trying to force her to move out I did not have advice for her I told her to seek legal help. I do not want to land in a situation like that at 71 and I gather you also do not, so that is why I am saying please please do not move in with him and do whatever to keep you busy and grow and start going out with others even if its just to go to the movies. Take up a course. enrich yourself. Never forget about this 71 year old woman I just told you about. I have 2 other friends that went through the same thing also they struggle I do NOT want to be in that boat so I am not going back this time. Neither should you. I hope it helped a bit. I so feel how you feel. Its unreal.