Our beautiful friend, Vera, feels like she did everything right this time, making sure that she wasn't pushing him away. But he still got distant and started pulling away!
Here's what she wrote:
I am no stranger to a guy pulling away and when I look back at every guy who did I realize what I did wrong to push them away.
This time it is different.
I met this guy online and from the moment we met I let him take the lead and act like the man. I NEVER once initiated contact, I did not come off as clingy or needy, I purposely said I had plans when I didn't just so it would look I was not available every time he wanted.
We dated for about 3 months and never slept together. I never at one point thought that he was after sex. He would always ask me out on actual dates and take me to nice restaurants or movies. He always went out of the way to pick me up at my house and never pushed for me to let him come in. He is a doctor and still managed once a day to be in contact with me.
The holidays came and went and that is where things changed.
We went 3 weeks without seeing each other because of our schedules (I had a friend visiting from abroad) but still were in contact every day sending each other texts and updates. When we finally saw each other he was super clingy and told me he missed me when we weren't together.
He just wanted to sit on the couch and cuddle, never made me think he was just looking for a hook up. He kept saying he missed me and how he didn't want to go that long without seeing each other again.
I mirrored him and said I agree.
After this night is when things got weird. He texted me less and less and the texts were short and to the point. He stopped asking me how my day was. He went a whole week without being in contact and I never once freaked.
I know that this is a test some men do and that pulling away can be a good thing and a natural part of falling in love. He did come back but I expected him to be more excited to see me and be more attentive since I gave him the space he was basically telling me he needed.
Then the exact same behavior happened the next week.
I did extensive research online and realized that his is behavior is called hot and cold. I also was not ok with the fact that we were at the 3 month mark and we were only seeing each other once a week, not speaking on the phone or meeting each others friends/family.
My therapist has told me that when it comes to relationships I have unrealistic expectations and that this guy seemed to be a good guy who was backing up his words with his actions. I did not feel the same since there was such a dramatic change in the behavior and I didn't want to be confused anymore.
When he went a whole week without contacting me again then popping back up asking me to dinner and a movie acting as if nothing ever happened I lost it.
I sent him a text saying if I have to pick between my dignity and a relationship I will always choose my dignity. I said I don't know what is wrong with you lately but you are not acting like the sweet attentive non game playing man I thought you were. It has been fun getting to know you these past few months and I am sure I will see you around the city sometime.
It took him 3 days to respond and when he did he apologized not for being dishonest or playing games because that was never his intent but for not being able to give me the consistent time that I deserve. He told me he really enjoyed getting to know me and that he really enjoyed the time we spent together.
I will admit that I did not meet my goal of having him come back. I thought that between me not being clingy, initiating contact, not sleeping with him and then showing him I don't need him and walking away that he would place a high value on me and realize he lost one of the good ones.
I know in the end it does not matter why he did what he did because the bottom line is he left and didn't come back.
What I don't understand is what happened??? He might not have as much time as other men being a doctor but he was able to make time for me before so I don't buy the excuse that he cant give me time.
As much as it hurts I have to assume he might have met someone else, but I don't understand how he could be so into me then be captivated by someone else. I also don't understand why it took him 3 days to respond.
This is a feeling that is all too familiar to me.
What is your advice?
I did everything correct in my opinion and feel that even though I broke up with him I am the one who lost everything. I am sure what will happen next is I will find out that he was able to commit and give time to some other girl since that is always how things work out in my life.
I have tried everything under the sun to meet someone, joining things, online dating, set ups and nothing ever seems to stick.
I am really starting to loose my faith that I will find someone.
-Vera
My Response:
Oh Vera, how I hear you.
There's nothing worse than doing things different this time around and ending up with the same end result! It’s frustrating, infuriating, so confusing, and can’t help but leave you right where you are – doubting if you’ll ever find someone who’s right for you.
We all hear you!
But I chose your letter today because it touches on exactly WHY he still disappeared, which is a question that I hear all the time.
And here’s the reason why.
We can do everything different on the outside. We can read every single article about what we’re supposed to do. We can read every book on the subject until we know, in theory, exactly what he needs us to do. We can spend all this time and energy until we’ve got the solution down to a science, but until we’ve taken these “correct” things and made them our own, he’ll eventually see right through all these actions to who and what we really are.
I could have written your letter so many times, Vera. I thought I had it down. I was as painstakingly perfect in my research and then my actions as you were. And still, STILL, it didn’t work out the way it was supposed to.
I’ve got two answers for you.
The first is that “supposed to” is only our version of the story. “Supposed to” is only viewed through the very limited vision that we have that never sees the future the way we would need to if we were to actually know what “supposed to” looks like. So there is another dimension to this where you need to recognize that there was a reason this didn’t work out the way it was “supposed to”.
I know we always like to argue that one vehemently. We always think we know better! We always feel like we can see this so much better than anyone else can, even if it’s our own future self down the road.
The second answer is that we can’t follow a set of rules and expect to get a completely different outcome only by following that set of rules.
We have to embrace new concepts, new ideas, new “aha” moments that come from what we’re finding in our research, to find not just a set of rules, but how the ideas behind the rules speak to us.
What changes for us if we look deeper into what it means to “not be clingy”? What’s behind “not initiating contact”? Why wouldn’t you want to sleep with him too early? Why would you want to give him the impression you “don’t need him” and can easily just “walk away”?
We need to sit with these, let them resonate with us until we have our own answers, until we feel different, until we feel inspired to change something, to make a shift in our own lives on a level that resonates deep within us.
A rule is only as good as we make it. Following someone else’s prescription for what to do is only going to be successful if you make it your own. You need to allow yourself to sit with it until you see something you were never able to see before.
This is why the women whose lives are changed the most, the ones who you hear me talk about who suddenly find their guy pursuing them again, or find themselves surrounded by the attention of all kinds of men - or with all kinds of options THEY get to choose from, aren't the women who merely read and then memorize what I tell them to do.
It’s the ones who sit with it, who come back for more, again and again for as long as it takes until THEY see what’s behind it, until they put all my advice together and make it work for them. That’s the part we always miss. And you’re not alone.
That’s the part I personally kept missing for years!
But when you unlock this part, Vera, everything WILL change for you, too. That’s when you’ll find him. And that’s when he’ll find you, too. He’ll be there. And no, this is one that won’t disappear.
I hope this helps!
Love,
Jane
Do you have any other words of encouragement or advice for our dear friend Vera? Share your thoughts with us in the comments!
Most REAL living people looking for a nice honest companion are wired to date by rules and throw caution to the wind and be a free spirit that thinks there is an abundance of possible mates. Most of us work and are tired and when we do find chemistry it is all in. People act like they don't care and if they do they aren't being honest. One should be able to show emotion and express concerns. Sorry but all this dating info is for shallow non- commit people. When someone likes you and is ready non of the other stuff matters. It's the world now, sad
This is another Vera sending big hugs to Vera ( and the rest of you ladies as i am sure we all have felt the withdrawal symptom at some point by our guys ).
I've met this guy last year and after 2 months of intense dating in a good way ( i.e. we saw each other almost 3 times a week, i met all his friends, he took me to work events where i met his boss and coworkers ) , suddenly - he went ALOOF on me
No regular texts, nor calls. I tried to initiate a date, but he was out of town and then when he was back, i was away..i'm going to be honest: i was hurting !! or should i say my ego was hurting ?
But i let him be - and i've moved on.. not even 2 months later, he came back..yes he did ! in fact, they always do, don't they?
As i was already into someone else, i cared little about him wanting to see me and just to talk about what had happened when he pulled away.. but i did give him the chance, we met and talked a lot over some wine in a local bar.
I wasnt angry nor bitter, i said: you felt certain way and you acted upon your feelings, we all do the same. next time tho, try to communicate better with the girl you are going to be with. it would make things lot better between you two.
So we agreed to remain friends, no bitter feelings and all -
but i know that we both still have some feelings for each other and the chemistry is still there for sure -
Every time we met, he has been nothing but sweet and real gentleman to me.
However, i don't really trust him . I'm afraid that he would do the pull away act again on me if i give him / us another chance..and the last time i saw him, i did say to him: this fun thing we have going on between us can keep on happening until i meet someone worth dating .. oh boy :/ that was hursh, i admit. im sure i hurt his ego. im sure he felt as an option, but at that moment that's how i felt and i shared that with him.
And i haven't heard from him ever since . I sent a random text with a picture of a great country club i went to as i know he loves the country music, but no reply back from him.. its been 3 days now and still nothing.
i know he hasnt blocked me for sure lol and we are still FB friends:)
Is he pulling away again on me or ? did i push him away by being brutally blunt / honest?
I know we aren't dating nor we are in some sort of relationship so he doesnt have to answer back to me , but we did agree to communicate better and let each other know if we meet someone else in meantime ...
I am not going to push things even further by sending another text, so i am just going to let him be ..again.
In meantime - i've gone to other dates, started cooking classes and went on a cruise 🙂
I dont have much time to overthink , but it would bug me until i find out the reason behind this behavior of his..
Any thoughts ladies?
Thanks 🙂
Please Maisie,
Find one thing to do like the yoga class you signed up for. Sometimes try and imagine him going through the effort to seem interesting to you rather than the other way around.
He will be worth it if he likes you the way you are flaws and all.
I tried being a cool aloof chick before and ended up irritated that the relationship didn't work and i wasnt myself.
Now with my boyfriend I really am so unapologetically me and he senses the strrenthg in my calmness and resolve which is what he has been attracted to. And to be honest i know he does a lot to make me happy rather than me doing a lot to make myself feel desirable.
Sorry dont want to sh*t on your parade just i think make your life even if not uber interesting, but more fun for yourself. The joy will resonate in your energy, your confidence will shine through and you wouldn't feel the need for your white lies.
Apologies for typos, lack of apostrophes etc.
Result!!
got text from him this afternoon asking me how i was and what i was up to? I told him little white lies as i call them! I was at a party on saturday not true was looking after mum with dementia! Ive joined a yoga class but havnt gone yet but he dosnt know that!
The reality is my life is quite boring as im not working and am looking after my mum 24/7 but i wouldnt care tell him i sit in everynight tearing my hair out! Hes on a need to know basis!
My mum laughs and says im awful for telling white lies but if he knew how boring my life is hed run away!
I just hope hes worth it he seiems keen but time will tell!
As long as he THINKS im out having fun and a life the more respect he will have always good to keep him guessing! I know he has a very busy social life where he is but i also sense hes lonely too!
One thing ive learnt from experience is nobody is really out there having a fantastic life as i used to think.
Im sure some will disagree with lying but trust me i have tried hard to make my life better here but my friends are all married with kids and we dont have much in common now and my single friends have given up?
Not me i am going to meet a good guy heaven knows ive kissed enough frogs and so i deserve it!!
I find when youre not looking someone always appears!
Not sure I replied to you directly (my reply to your comment is below).
Have a great day and good luck.
If someone wants to vanish and they are the fairweather kind of person, nothing you do will make much of a difference. That person may have been one to bail on things and others long before you met them. Also, I do think this kind of situation is more common online than offline dating. This is entirely something a person does. Even if he did run off an elope with another woman after knowing her 5 minutes, this is clearly the act of a coward. If one is an adult and seeking a relationship, then its pretty common that its an expectation on both sides for mature adult behavior. However, its not always the case no matter how old that person is. Simply put: he is not worth it. Lacks common decency. What else is he capable of?
I think vera did everything right and kept her dignity good for you! this guy was getting it on elsewhere and thats why he wasnt pushing too hard for sex. No matter what rules etc a man will be in touch and let you know if hes into you or not no excuses no games!
I wont play games lifes too short but just this once i am going to wait until he gets back to me and initiates further contact.
Mine is a bit different as we met just on his last night here. He is from here and will come home alot to visit family so this will embarassing for me if i bump into him again and there was no response.
also its very hard to get to know someone through texts but i think i will know by what he asks if he is trying to really get to know me or just another player (seems to me there are alot of players out there) I think its a sad lonely life to not have someone to share things with lets face it we can all go out and get laid every night if we want? To me thats not fun its just sad!
You'll never have to play hard to get, Maisie, if you live your life in a way that you are naturally hard to get! He needs to show you that he's worthy of you before you give yourself away to him.
I agree with you Jane and well said as always. You really need to become the person that's not needy, busy with your own life without worrying about what he's thinking/doing 24/7. That is the difficult part. I have such a busy life like most women but still find the time to do all of the above. However what I have realised is that when I genuinely start to switch off from him, he has a way of sensing this and comes back doing the right thing. I don't understand why I can't just be me to meet Mr right. Good luck to all the ladies x
How I hear you, Kay. "I have such a busy life like most women but still find the time to do all of the above." Yes, we still do, don't we?! Thank you for adding your own thoughts here to the conversation.
Also one more thing. "I will admit that I did not meet my goal of having him come back. I thought that between me not being clingy, initiating contact, not sleeping with him and then showing him I don't need him and walking away that he would place a high value on me and realize he lost one of the good ones."
The goal shouldn't be to manipulate the guy into doing a certain thing or to get a certain outcome. You're trying to control something you can't control. Focus on yourself rather than the guy. Continue living your life and showing up authentically and let the chips fall where they may. I used to struggle with the same thing. I wanted so badly to control the outcome of the conversation or relationship. I had to shift from that to controlling how I showed up and being authentic and letting what was going to happen, happen. That way I'm fine with whatever happens because I did what was best for me at that time in that situation. This guy didn't work out but that doesn't mean you did something wrong, it just means he wasn't the right person for you. Keep living your intentions and being true to yourself one day at a time and let THAT be the goal.
Exactly, Sallysue! Thank you for adding this to the conversation!
Vera it sounds like this guy was just looking for a casual type dating relationship, not a committed relationship. When you sent that final text you were giving him the opportunity to step up and take it to another level and he chose not to, most likely because he knows he can't give you the relationship you want. He obviously liked you but was prob too busy with his career as you say. I had a similar experience with someone I met on match.com. We dated for a couple of months and it was like you describe with him doing all the chasing and taking me out on real dates but he never brought up exclusivity or initiated deeper conversations, it was all superficial convos. I wasn't that into him so I let it fade away.
I think I know what Jane is saying. I am part of a group of women who follow "The Rules" for dating. Some of the women have been doing The Rules for years and have never had a relationship. Others do The Rules and they end up in relationships and eventually get married. The difference between the two groups of women that I have noticed is the ones that find relationships integrate The Rules into who they are and how they live and they do them authentically and they show up in the relationship authentically. They do The Rules because it's part of who they are, not because they are following a set of rules someone else gave them. They tweak the Rules for their personality and situation and owe them. The women who can't seem to find a relationship seem to follow the Rules very literally and do them for the sake of doing them as opposed to doing them because they really want to. They are not vulnerable at all. I suspect they come across as inauthentic or game playing to the guy and that's partly why it doesn't work out for them. Vera - I don't know you so I'm not saying you're not showing up authentically. But I'm just saying I've seen the difference within this group and it's what Jane is talking about. It's the difference between following your own "rules" and following a script given to you by someone else.
Thanks for clarifying my point with your own experience with the "Rules" group you mention here, Sallysue. This is exactly what I'm referring to!
Ana,
I agree with you about me being more interested than he was. I am upset because I met him on a dating service so I thought there was at least a chance he was looking for a relationship. I feel that he should have been honest and say I am in a very demanding career right now so I am just looking for companionship and fun, I am not looking to get serious. His actions in the beginning made me think he was really interested in getting serious and the fact that they went on for multiple weeks made me think he was a standup guy. But alas, everyone's true colors eventually come out and I am glad I know now rather than 6 months from now and sleeping with him that he is not looking for a relationship. If I had not put my foot down and broke up with him the way I did, he would have continued this behavior for as long as I was willing to put up with it. Maybe me being so cutthroat will save the next woman he dates some trouble because he won't pull the same shit with her.
Beautiful Vera,
I've been following your posts to understand more because like you, I've had my share of reality checks.
I have absolutely no doubt you're a great catch, but there's something I'm sensing in your words. It sounds like you're getting too stuck on what it SHOULD look like, what YOU think and want and you're expecting the man to just adjust to you. I wholeheartedly understand why we might get to that point. I've been there myself, but here's the thing: a relationship is made of two people with their own views, ideas, and interpretations. The key is always to be open in communicating with each other. There's nothing wrong with you sitting down with him and telling him what you sense and what you're making it mean and then giving him time to express himself and truly listen and put yourself in his shoes. This doesn't mean you agree or think everything is fine if it isn't, but just like you, a man has every right to be heard and understood.
I learnt this just now because I myself was having my little predicament with a guy I'm seeing. I sensed him pulling away and I asked him what was up. We had a very long talk and I saw how he wasn't what I'm looking for but I also understood perfectly where he's coming from. I thought of you when I realized all this. I also was afraid of bringing up the talk because of all these rules and stuff. Then it hit me. What Jane means is I just have to do what I feel while at the same time looking at things objectively. I definitely proved to myself tonight that I can definitely do this and it's not as complicated as I was making it out to be trying to follow a script or rules about being feminine and such.
I didn't find the man I'm looking for, but although I am a bit sad, I'm proud of myself for this wonderful lesson I've just learned. I'm proud of myself for letting myself be real and open even if I'm not received. I feel free.
Today I throw the rules I had in my head out the window and I trust I got this. I so wish I could share the feeling and the clarity of this epiphany with you.
You'll get your guy, I'm absolutely sure. Just dare to be authentic and let your guard down. You can absolutely do this.
Big hug.
That's it, Angel. You've got it! Yes, be so proud of yourself for seeing this for yourself and realizing it's never, ever as complicated as that part of ourselves always wants to make it out to be. You are free! (And I'm absolutely sure you will, too!)
Hello all, I'm going to add my interpretation of things...
What I think that was meant in most of the feedbacks including Jane's is that we all should do what we feel we should do, not what some set of rules tels us to do.
There's always room for improvement, and if we don't like anything in us is always healthy to try to change - for us!
Not because we "should" do this or that, it won't be natural, it won't feel natural.
It's sooo frustrating when we know we gave it our best and it didn't work. We've all been there. But that happens, it's life.
He was just not as interested as you were. We was not on the same page.
That sucks but I think that's it.
That's it! Thanks, Ana. And yes, when we're in the throes of it, it absolutely sucks!
Ladies, remember, before you accuse men of playing games, being shady, cheating or any other wrongdoing give him benefit of doubt. Why in this particular case Vera accused her guy just for not contacting her for one week? Was he maybe sick or more busy then normal? Unfortunate things do happen from time to time. Or was he maybe getting an impression that Vera needed some time on her own and he wanted to give her some space? In any case, how was he supposed to know that he is absolutely obliged to contact her every single day. Did she ever tell him that she expects that?
After the kind of break- up message she gave him he had more then enough reasons to not continue dating her. He was doing his best to please her, yet, instead of being appreciative and happy she became angry and losing her dugnity. Isn't that an excellent reason to give up and move out of her way? I suggest before you ever ask a man to give you more time, more attention, more committment, more money or more of anything else make sure you fully appreciate everything he is already giving and then let him know nicely, with no anger and accusations what it is that you would like to have more and why. This is how the guy can know that you are reasonable and ready to receive more.
And please dump the unrealistic expectations. Love is not all wine and roses. Every couple has ups and downs. Things slow down sometimes. It is perfectly normal, no need to panic or break up.
Remember, the perfect husband is the one who makes you a lot of money by spending with you all of his time, and be reasonable.
Nina,
Women often make excuses as to why men won't contact them because they want to avoid the obvious...he isn't calling because he isn't thinking about you. You do not know what our conversations were and I can assure you that I was very appreciative, thanked him every time he took me out, was very affectionate and told him all the time after our dates that he treated me very well. Even though I don't really know him and I only hung out with him for 3 months going from being in contact every day to then not at all seemed really out of character for him. He has had the same job since the day I met him and he always made time for me. He is human so he needs to sleep, eat and go to the bathroom, he can also take a second out of his day and text me which he wasn't. To go 3 weeks in a row with only reaching out once a week after the 3 month mark is no OK in my mind and I am not having unrealistic expectations in wanting him to do so. We are in our 30's it gets to a point where you know what you are looking for, if I am not what he was looking for he should stop seeing me, if I am he should take it to the next level. Blowing hot and cold after 3 months is I am sorry to say...game playing. If he wanted to hear from me, he could say, Vera, I feel I always initiate contact and I don't want to smother you, it would be nice to hear from you once in a while. He does not need to drop off the face of the earth. Women make excuses all the time for men to get them off the hook, he didn't contact me because he didn't care. We never discussed being exclusive so I have to realize he very well could have been pouring his time and energy into another women and keeping me in the picture until he was sure with her. Actions speak louder than words always!!!! It does not matter how many times a man says he loves you, he misses you or he wants to be with you, if he is not spending time with you, making you a couple or is being distant then he is basically telling you he is all talk and no action!
I have to say I agree with your comments regarding actions speaking louder than words though ... 🙂
This letter has brought up some interesting energy in the posts hasn't it ladies?
Perhaps the learning is that we all know deep down what is true for us and we need to support each other in making the right choices. Trust your gut. It knows best.
"Perhaps the learning is that we all know deep down what is true for us and we need to support each other in making the right choices. Trust your gut. It knows best." - Always! Thanks for adding this, Paula. 🙂
And those things happen as well, Vera. Sometimes you can be 100% right, but he is all wrong, or just not the right guy for you, or he meets someone he thinks fits him better. I think most of us had one or a couple of those.
This is why my policy is to not be exclusive with any man untill he specifically asked for it. If you only have known him for a couple of months and he did not mention he wants to be exclusive keep your options open. Date couple of them at a time, so you will not need to pretend. You will genuinely be unavailable 100% of the time. And you won't feel all lonely and dumped if someone suddenly disappears. If you've only dated him for a couple of months and you already feel like you are engaged and have to be together every songle day and your future together is already written in stone, I think this is a bit unreasonable. This sort of intimacy needs a little more time to develope. After all you do not want to jump into anything and find yourself married to a totally wrong guy too soon.
Thanks for adding your voice to the conversation, Nina.
I think also when relationship experts say to not contact men first this is only true within certain limits. Perhapse it is only true withing firsts initial weeks of dating, when we know the guy is all bright eyed and bushy tailed with his own hormones. So seriously, why would we contact him first if we know he is all into the chase anyway?
But after that initial excitement stage inevitably comes the slowdown stage. This is precisely after a couple of months of dating. This is when the man loses some of his original enthusiasm, starts looking at other women, becomes not sure if he should continue the relationship and committ to something stable or just continue with his past life of the wild oats that he's used too...I think at this tricky stage it is absolutely mandatory that a woman would contact him sometimes ( not too often though). At this stage he already knows he likes her, and she likes him, so why play games that are obviously fake? If we simply let him go, he probably would leave and proceed with dating other women ( and then regret it a few months down the road, when it is already too late). And women will be forced to just go from dating one man to another man to another man, and each of them will be the same; enthusiastic in the first few weeks, loosing the steam after a couple of months. So there are some strategies how to contact a man at that second stage without appearing desperate and increase his interest, instead of losing it. You can call him, but do not get angry. Remind him of something nice he did for you or ask for hel with something he is good at. Do not be too romantic, just practical.
Nina,
I wish I had seen your comment a month ago, how different my life might have been now. Thank you, your comment has made me see things from a different angle and I know it will help me in the future.
I am very glad I could help. Thanks, Jen, for letting me know.
Me too Nina, I liked the advice you had to offer. Very insightful into something we all question.
~Flo
Jane/all,
I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond as I know you receive many letters every day. I normally agree with what you post but I have to say, I 100% do not agree with your response. Maybe I delivered my story wrong and it was misinterpreted but I never was acting a certain way and then was actually giving a contradicting vibe out to him. I am a highly educated, attractive, self sufficient woman who does not have issues with confidence and knows her worth. I have NEVER even in my younger days been the type of woman to accept bad behavior from a guy. I am not a lets go over to my house and have a bottle of wine and watch a movie type woman I am a take me out and show me a good time put in effort type woman. I was not manipulating any situation, that is how I expect to be treated. I have standards. I also know I was not giving off any vibes because there was never any doubt in my mind that he cared for me. Even when I went a week without hearing from him I knew I would eventually and sure enough I did. I think our situation was a classic example of the timing being off. He is in a very demanding career right now as a resident and I don't expect him to put a girl that he dated for 3 months before his career of being a doctor. I also don't expect him to give up his little free time that he has to see me all the time and sacrifice his friendships and interests. It really all comes down to timing and then compatibility. When I first wrote that I know why I had pushed guys away before it was not because I was being needy or clingy, I have never been that girl. I mean that I am by nature very impatient and I would make the man I was dating have the "what are we convo" way before its time. After doing this about 3 times with different men I know realize that this is the number one way to drive them away. Even before we had this convo I still out not initiate contact, come off as needy, easy or insecure. I am from a very old fashion family and regardless of what year it is I expect the man to pursue me. So where I am going with this is I don't agree with your view that I was acting a part and I need to make it my own for it to work for me. I have always acted at the woman who gets pursued. My downfall would be that I would have the what are we convo to soon. In this particular case, I think he is not looking to get serious with anyone, at least not right now.
Hi, Verá!
Looks like you have your answer according to this last post.
The way I interpret this is that there is no right or wrong way of doing things.
You did the best you could and he just wasn't your guy, but it's no reflection of you or what you did or didn't do.
I would say though that the initial letter came off a bit differently and I thought you were second guessing yourself because he chose to walk away.
It's hard when you think things are going fine and they don't pan out.
I so hear you.
Yes I am a bit confused too as yes from your last message you seem to have it all sorted. I guess I am wondering why you have these conversations too soon if that is what you are doing (which is what you seem to be saying)? I don't mean to be rude but you come across as a bit full on maybe you would get exactly what you what if you would chill out a bit more (you concede you are impatient) and let things flow? If anything you seem to be at the other side of the spectrum to most posters here who allow poor behaviour for too long etc. Not suggesting any of us should allow poor behaviour for any length of time of course. I guess I am wondering why you pulled the plug here. And if you did because you realised he is not on the same page as you then what it is you are seeking from Jane exactly cause you have the answer it seems already and clearly did the right thing. Figure out where the impatience comes from and address that and you will have a different outcome next time is by thought ...
That's ok, Vera. There's always more to our stories than we can fit in the space of a letter. I'm happy to hear that it sounds like you've found your own answers. You deserve nothing less than someone who adores you, who cherishes you, and never gives you any reason to question how he feels about you.
Vera, one thing I have learned on this journey, men are feelers. Instead of talking they feel when you are gaming, real, happy, sad, angry, etc. Although you did something different and came out with the same result, my opinion, you were being someone else instead of VERA which is a wonderful person. If we as women will be who we are, which FABULOUS and WORTHY and stop relying on MEN to make us feel this way, we would have a much more happy life. I have been there VERA changes how I did things, but what I got was the same thing. The key words "changed how I did things" but I did not change me. If you want change, change you and everything round you will change. It works also know what you truly want in a man and if he is that give it a chance....if not be friends and keep it moving!!! Live life to the fullest, Laugh as hard and loud as you can, and LOVE yourself unconditionally!!!
Great advice, RealDavis. Thank you!
So true Tanya, I think this is the preferred way of looking at your experience. And key word ladies is being authentic. Good luck Vera.
Totally get what you are saying and find the resistance here in the comments interesting to say the least. Had a meeting with my (female) boss recently where she talked about the energy within me and clearly she could read it was not as was being intentionally disseminated by me (had my reasons) and it feels like what you are saying here is similar. The reality is when you are in alignment and this stuff happens it wont matter to you. I have had to ask myself the question why I felt the need to wear a mask with my boss. I recall having done some similar stuff with men though not these days. When you are in alignment then there will be flow and no difference between who you are on the outside and what you feel on the inside and your congruence will attract someone similar. Reading this letter felt "heavy" or dense energy to me and I suspect that there was a point where deep down she really wanted to be vulnerable with this guy and blocked that choosing to play by the rules instead.
That's it, Paula. Thank you for sharing. I'm glad you could reference your own specific situation to make this more real for you. Exactly!
Hi Vera, I am sorry that you are losing faith in relationships right now. You don't have to make up your mind about men or relationships in this moment. You could give yourself the gift of time to let things settle and perhaps be open to new perspectives as the days and weeks unfold. It may sound trite, but pain can launch us into growth. There just may be a blossoming in this dark moment that you can unfurl by keeping faith that there is more for you to learn, more for you to uncover about the woman you are meant to be.
I think it's wonderful that you are reaching out and looking for support. For me, when I am vulnerable with women friends, my therapist, and sometimes even my mom I learn valuable lessons that help carry me through those dark times of hopelessness and helplessness. I went through a traumatic breakup 3 months ago and today I feel stronger than I have been in a long time, in part because I have practiced BOTH sharing about my experience, AND taking breaks from thinking about it. Each day is a choice for me -- Is today a day I need to honor my sadness and pain and have some one-on-one time with a bestie and stay in PJs? Or, is today a day I push my comfort zone and force myself to go out there and do something fun or be there for someone else who may need support? (Focusing on a friend in need or community service is a great way to take my mind off of my own problems for awhile!)
I am now tinkering in a new relationship! And, I relate to you in that I have been reading and analyzing and setting rules because I want to learn my lesson from my past broken relationships. And, you know what? The rules aren't really working for me, so I am taking a gentler approach now. I am forgiving myself for those things I judge as a "mistake" like texting him on a day I promised myself I wouldn't, or saying I missed him. I am referring back to the great things I've read and learned as guideposts instead of strict commandments. I, too didn't want to sleep with the guy for 3 months, but the attraction was so high that I made it one month. And, you know what? I don't regret it one second, because while I had the theory in my head that waiting for 3 months is a super healthy way to go, that length of time is not set in stone. And, it was a great improvement from previous experiences of jumping into sexual intimacy immediately. I am making progress! I am not perfect, I am a human. And, if a couple mistakes turns the guy off and sends him into distance land, then that is better for me to see right away, because I want someone who makes mistakes and still shows up the next day, too!
There is no magic formula and in fact the more I focus on trying to control my behavior to be more appealing to someone else, the less authentic I really am. It sounds like you are off to a good start in trying new behaviors, and I don't think you should see this as a failure, but perhaps as a critical learning experience that you can use as you move forward with dating.
This was awesome advice!!! I'm so sick of beating myself up for what I did 'wrong' or for what I didn't do. I'm sick of second-guessing myself, thinking I'm not enough in any way to make this particular man stay or become more engaged with me. I'm sick & tired of trying to analyze his behavior or our interactions on dates. If it's the right man, there's really nothing we could do wrong to ruin things. I just have to accept the fact that when things don't work out or progress the way I had hoped, it just means it wasn't meant to be. I need to take the lessons from that relationship & move forward.
So true, Tanya. You've summed this up so beautifully, so succinctly. Thank you. As much as we want there to be, there is no one size fits all magic formula! So happy to hear you've found yourself "tinkering" in a new relationship! Keep us posted. You are beautifully human and perfect for the equally as human guy who's truly compatible with you!
I also think that Janes message was really reaching in this one. Vera acted like a lady throughout, and still apparently her 'energy' wasn't right. There is something up with this guy. Who dates in this day and age and doesn't get intimate in 3 months? Runs hot and cold. Is a doctor (many have zero social skills). It sounds like he just wasn't that interested, and perhaps would not be interested in most people. What about the notion that there are many spoiled, dysfunctional, non socialized men in the world and that most are unsuitable to date. Vera did nothing wrong.
"... and still apparently her 'energy' wasn't right." - It's not a contest. It simply can never be "right" with someone who's not on the same page, who's not truly compatible, who's not right for her. "Vera did nothing wrong." - You got it, Linda! There is no "wrong" with the right guy for her!
Hi Vera, I'm glad you changed your dating plan for this guy. It's hard to do but a good lesson. I have to say from the start I think he probably picked up that you were playing a game. Never tell a guy you are busy when you aren't. Make sure you are busy so that when he calls you are living your life. They pick up on that. Also, it was 3 months and he never initiated anything physical with you? Was there chemistry? Did you hope he would want to be intimate with you? He might have thought that you were not interested. Men can be afraid to initiate anything physical based on our interactions with them. He definitely wasn't looking for a hook-up but I'm not sure why after 3 months nothing close to sex happened.
I think you played it too cool for a well established man.
How old are you two?
We are both 31 and yes there was chemistry and passion. We came close to being intimate but didn't. I am glad we didn't or I would be really upset right now. I took it as a compliment that he never tired to just be only after one thing. We only got to see each other once a week because of his job so I liked that when we did see each other he wanted to show me a great time instead of just being like I am tired, lets stay in
Hi Vera, you are both young and strong at heart. I am sorry you had to go through that. I still say it seems interesting that you 2 did not have sex after 3 months.
I remember when I was dating a guy and after a fun 3 day Holiday w/e with him he got very weird with me the next Holiday that came up. He was ignoring me, wouldn't respond to my contacts and I quickly sent him an email telling him it was best that he not contact me again. IMO why should I let him when he can't even say to me "Hey, I am sorry but this Holiday w/e I am very busy".. y'know? When sharing my story I had someone tell me that I shouldn't have done that. That I should have talked to him the next time I saw him. Yikes, it is so much easier sending that virtual email saying "stop"... anyway. Just food for thought on your next guy, if he does something that really gets to you, see if you can talk to him in person instead of sending the virtual "Dear John"... that advice for me sticks in my head.
Vera, I do believer, that you 2 will cross paths again and you will find out what happened. I am not sure about how you feel now but I would want that closure.
When was the last time you 2 talked or communicated?
It has been almost a month of no contact. Like I said before, it does not really matter why he did what he did, the point is he did it. I dont want our paths to cross or to hear from him, I really think he knew exactly what he was doing and I think he is a jerk for not being upfront about what he was looking for. He did try and initiate sex but I said no. I met him online so was well aware he could be dating/sleeping with other people which made me keep my guard up. I am really angry with him and don't feel I could ever trust him again. I thought about talking to him before I told him I didn't want to see him again but the reality is that if a guy is into you, you dont need to tell him to contact you or see you especially you dont have to tell them you want to hear from them more. It should be a natural progression and they should want to talk to you and see you. We were clearly on our way out. At the 3 month mark it should be an effortless happy time like a honeymoon stage
Sorry for bugging again, Vera, but I am getting a feeling you are a bit set on your ways about what a relationship is supposed to be. Yes it is supposed to be always great, always happy, and yes they are supposed to always progress fron a lot of love to even more love, and sure each of us is entitle to meet her Prince charming and just live happily ever after. Except, unfortunately it does not always happen exactly that way. In fact quite the opposite is true. Precisely around three months, when it is time to go from casual to exclusive, most relationships go through a difficult phase, when both sides start dealing with their own issues and doubts. Not all couples survive this stage, but those who do, usually manage through some patience and understanding and they move to more committment and intimacy, once those dark days are over.
Jane,
I have to agree that your answer was quite vague in this one. However, I think what you are trying to say is for Vera to just be herself instead of trying to follow a set of rules. I think u were also saying that what's on the inside will definetly be felt through her energy regardless of her outward "performance". In other words, just going by the numbers is not going to make a difference if it is not something you truly feel on the inside. It will seem like a battle between the script to be followed and the actual feelings. That will be felt in her energy. Until she truly believes that it is not good to be clingy, then the core of who she is still feels it is ok.
Jane, are you saying that her energy vs her facade was what made him loose interest?
I have to agree with the other responses. Normally I sit and nod my head at your advice. This time I didn't understand what you were getting at at all.
I do hear you. And sometimes, SarahLou, it's the ones that we don't understand that answer our questions better than the ones we do.
Exactly, G.K. - "I think what you are trying to say is for Vera to just be herself instead of trying to follow a set of rules. I think u were also saying that what's on the inside will definetly be felt through her energy regardless of her outward "performance". In other words, just going by the numbers is not going to make a difference if it is not something you truly feel on the inside. It will seem like a battle between the script to be followed and the actual feelings. That will be felt in her energy."
With the exception of the last part. It's not that "it is not good to be clingy", but rather that we need to acknowledge, accept and embrace the parts of ourselves that we feel we "shouldn't be" if we are going to love and accept ourselves the way we want someone to love us, too.
When I read Vera's letter, it sounded like she was doing all the things that another so called relationship guru tells women to do (her name was Katarina). She tells women to lean back and do nothing, don't initiate, be feminine and let him lead blah blah blah! It's all bull! With so much conflicting and confusing information out there, no Wonder women are so lost and confused! i think women just need to be who they are and be themselves and enjoy their lives doing things that make them happy! Who knows if we will ever meet the right man or not, some do and some don't but it doesn't mean you or I are any better or worse than anyone else out there in this world as not all relationships people are in are ideal anyway! There are more divorces than ever before! Just live and enjoy life doing whatever make you happy, don't base your life on the actions of another man as there is a lot of lonely confused men out there that probably don't have a clue themselves!
Good point, Anna.
When you start to feel good about yourself, you won't need any of these games to get some guy to commit. It never works anyway.
Many of these have their own issues that we can't even imagine. I had an interesting talk with a guy who I was involved with after my divorce. I thought he was different, but he was totally unavailable. I had a great talk with him and admits he is emotionally unavailable. He refers to himself as a whore and says he just likes sex with a lot of different women. He said sometimes he feels like he has met "the one", but after 6 or 7 months he gets bored and wants sex with someone else. When we first started seeing each other he contacted me several times a day. Then it quickly dropped off, in the typical way of eu men. He said he loves me, but I deserve someone better who will be faithful. He said the only way he stayed interested in his ex wife was by ignoring her to the point she wanted to leave or cheat on him and then he would be really turned on and want sex with her again. She finally did leave him for someone else.
In the beginning, he really made me feel that he wanted a long term relationship, and i think he may have, but in the end, he is who he is amd he got bored. He said he wants to be different, but it just never works that way for him. I'm not sure if that is true, since he loves to talk about the number (he told me proudly that I was number 48 of 49 - you can imagine how I felt when I heard that - ugh!)
Anyway, every single one of my friends who is married, hate their husbands and want to leave. I often hear how lucky I am to be single. Do I feel bad about not having a great relationship right now? Certainly not! Learn to live and appreciate every day. Meditate, exercise, eat healthy and spend time with positive people. Forget about men and relationships for now. When you actually stop caring, and just start enjoying life, you will be happy. Then if a guy comes along, great! If not, great too!
Ouch! I can imagine how that felt, Deb. So glad you saw through that one! The grass is rarely as green as we think it is. Thanks for sharing your experience for this beautiful reminder - "Learn to live and appreciate every day. Meditate, exercise, eat healthy and spend time with positive people. Forget about men and relationships for now. When you actually stop caring, and just start enjoying life, you will be happy. Then if a guy comes along, great! If not, great too!" - Yes! 🙂
Hi im new to all this and have just hit 50 and am still single? I have just met a nice guying and he was texting me really keen and now nothing in five days? I have to point out though that the night we met he was on his last night of his holiday here and lives abroad.
We got on great he insisted i keep in touch with him by free text and was very keen and invited me to visit him this year.
We were texting alot taking into account the 8hr time difference and now after replying to his last text "nothing".
I dont know what to do now and was making plans to go out there as i have no commitments? But i will not text him until he gets in touch.
I just dont know whats happened but its five days now and as im not taking anymore crap from men how long do i wait until i can say "bye bye".
I want to give him a chance but am no fool as this hasnt happened to me before im a bit stunned?
any advice?
Hi Jane.
I have a question. I'm not entirely sure I understand what you meant in your response. Making it my own.... What does it mean? What does that really look like?
I agree wholeheartedly with not playing by rules or trying to manipulate things, I personally think I need to be genuine in how I show up for me to actually be able to find someone who can match me well, but how does this "how to act" manual play into this?
I'm feeling a little confused.
I hear Vera in that sometimes we feel nothing we ever do is enough, I have felt that myself. If I read her letter, all I can see is a girl who's unconsciously trying to manipulate the outcome instead of just understanding that this guy was simply not what she was looking for.
But I got a bit confused when I started analysing your answer... I feel a little dense right now.
Could you somehow help me connect the dots?
So what does it mean to you to be genuine? Is it your own definition, or someone else's that was merely given to you that became your own? Same with anything else that you're "supposed" to do. Is it yours or someone else's? What happens when you question it? What comes up for you? Someone answered your question beautifully in one of the comments below, Angel. And I've got a post coming that should take care of the rest. But I'm glad you asked, and that you sat with it long enough to realize you even had a question. 🙂
Jane I am angry at your irresponsibility here. You are not God to say why this did not work out. It was not meant to be. Your making these poor woman analyse to much. Yes i agree with some of your articles . In fact a lot of what you offer is ok. But this is just not right. The poor girl is over analysing and become neurotic. Its life . There is nothing psychological you need to analyse or offer. Stop the game playing and just live your life.
How is a woman who writes her own blog and from her own experience being irresponsible? She clearly states this and often references that this is where her insight comes from. Not agreeing makes sense, and that's why she invites comments. However, name-calling because we don't like what someone has said seems hardly necessary. We, as a part of our innate and conditioned humanity, analyze our experience to extract meaning and purpose for our particular narratives. In this way, it is normal and natural...not sure how "analyzing" has gotten such a bad reputation, other than using that as another way to minimize, criticize, and judge each other for our separate, yet shared, human experience. "Too much" and/or "too little" of anything is always a matter of unique, personal taste.
Beautifully said, Alesheia. Thank you. You've put into words my sentiments exactly. - "We, as a part of our innate and conditioned humanity, analyze our experience to extract meaning and purpose for our particular narratives. In this way, it is normal and natural...not sure how "analyzing" has gotten such a bad reputation, other than using that as another way to minimize, criticize, and judge each other for our separate, yet shared, human experience. "Too much" and/or "too little" of anything is always a matter of unique, personal taste."
I'm glad you felt safe enough here to express what you're feeling, BB. Ask yourself why it's not right. Ask yourself why you had such a strong reaction to my response. There's something here for you to take away from this. I don't know what that is, but you do. Find that, and you've found an even bigger answer than you realize.
Jane you need to be open to Criticism, I think your blogs may have gone to your head, and you’re thinking your GOD. Your advice is damaging in this post. You advise women to hold back, to not give back more then they should, then you say me authentic, then you ask them to analyse why they are clingy. Then this post you are saying your energy was projecting the result, of showing in authentic behaviour. You have a responsibility in not making people think too much. Which is why ther are a lot of women and men who are triple thinking.
This is nothing to do with me, I do agree with some of your posts they have great insight.
All this “attraction” crap and psychological analysis of childhood issues and attracting wrong men, have no correlation. Life is about choices. None of this stuff actually has any reality in real life, imagine in Palestine, or middle east or places of poverty and war. Do you think they go around playing this head games.
This ladies experience is all on the guy, the guy was not into her regardless of her actions. If this was the right partner, he would have patience to stand by and openly communicate. These are the skills you need in a partnership. As humans we make mistake sin partnerships, friendships and all kinds relationships. Look at your best relationships, you have said the wrong thing, been vulnerable, the other person is still their standing by seeing the good in you, when your not feeling right, moody, looking not so glam. Because it comes down to charact in the other person plus ourself to stick it out. You choose to be there in the good the reality of life.
Stop giving these people to become more neurotic. This passage was the most damaging. Your basically telling these women, keep working on yourself, an you still haven’t got it right, by not giving too much yourself, oh an your energy still was not right. Life is not about your energy attracting things to you. Life is life, we all face obstacles. If this theory of energy was right, are you saying that the people who are in war torn countries, its their fault, because they are projecting energy that attracts war, poverty, rape. NO. its called life, we born in our lives and we do the best we can to progress and survive.
Jane you need to look at your messages you are sending to these vulnerable people. Yes you may have gone through a lot in meeting your partner. We all have and are, but your experiences only apply to minority of people in the world. There are plenty of pure partnerships in the world. You do not have the secret that applies to the Universe. You have your experiences and that’s it, it does not apply to all.
The reason some of us keep attracting wrong men, we keep ignoring red flags, thinking they will change. Also you can do everything right and its just not meant to be. Don’t be hard on yourself ladies. Keep being yourself , human, and you will meet that sincere considerate person. You will still have obstacles, but that person will be there to work through them.
This was the damaging passage I meant to insert "It’s the ones who sit with it, who come back for more, again and again for as long as it takes until THEY see what’s behind it, until they put all my advice together and make it work for them. That’s the part we always miss. And you’re not alone."
Your making them analyse too much. Many people are not working on themselves constantly and are getting into partnerships. Partnerships, you need a partner who wants to grow with you with your imperfections and your perfections. That is a real union. You do not need to have it all or be all. You just need to be you and have that partner where you both give and enhance each others lives. You cannot hold back, you must give but protect yourself so you see who the person is. Make sure they do earn a little obviously, then let go. The other will show you their character, then you have a choice to keep giving or not
Jane has never implied anything different from what you just said in this paragraph.
And people who follow the advice do so of their own accord. No one can make anyone do anything. The ones who come here look for perspective. That's all. Everyone takes what they want to take and discard the rest. That's out of Jane's control.
You don't control how people respond to your opinions.
That doesn't mean you don't get to have one or share it.
This is her blog, she can share anything she wants to share, and the ones who resonate will take what they want and leave the rest.
My life and my choices are my responsibility, not Jane's or her blog's.
I agree with most of what BB is saying. All too often the blame for break-ups/failed romances falls on the woman, in spite of the fact that the other party was clearly emotionally unavailable to start with - as demonstrated by Vera's story.
Yes, by all means read those self-help books, execute the 90 day rule, and keep coming back to your notes until you're living and breathing its teachings, but let's be real here, if a guy is EU, a f**kboy or has narcissistic tendencies, none of the tricks, tips and hints written in these books will lead you to the kind of healthy, loving, adult relationship we all desire. Both parties have to be present, and willing to invest 100% either side or it will fail.
This doctor came along and invested maybe 45-50% effort compared to Vera's 100% - which is why it didn't work. At least Vera had the good sense to call it quits with her dignity intact, rather than drag it out to a painful, bitter ending.
Ladies / gents, the best thing you can do is take your time to date people of interest. Allow them 3-6 months to unfold like this doctor did, then you will have a better idea of the kind of person you are dating, before making a solid commitment to be with them. Also, be mindful of red flag behaviour: are they consistent in their actions/approach toward you? Do they rely mostly on texts/emails to communicate? Are they open and honest about their past relationships and/or other details of their lives? Do they seem enthusiastic/happy to see you, and make future plans? Do you share similar values? Etc, etc...
Whilst I do agree that a lot of dating is to do with energies and chemistry (men/women can smell a desperate soul from a mile off), and one must learn to love themselves first and foremost, there is still a lot we can do to make sure that we're dating responsibility and weeding out the time wasters as quickly as possible.
Vera, I think you handled this beautifully if I'm honest! You courted for 3 months, kept your own independence, wasn't needy or demanding and kept a cool head when he started to behave erratically. All of this lead you to discover that his agenda was quite different to yours, and you were able to walk away head high (plus you never slept with him - BONUS!). Once the disappointment subsides, you'll see that this was a blessing in disguise.
The right man will not run from you, or let you walk away.
Oh BB, our relationship style has everything to do with our childhood. How else did we learn to interact with people. You really have to look at that to make things better if you are having trouble being in a relationship.