There's someone who keeps appearing in my calls with you.
A certain type of man that keeps coming up in our conversations, no matter where in the world you happen to be, regardless of your story, regardless if you've learned all those hard lessons, regardless of who you are and where you've been.
Years ago, I thought it was just me, and then just me and my friends, and then just some of the women I coached, and then almost every woman from every part of the world was telling me her story of the same type of man.
Until I realized, this was no coincidence.
All of us nurturers, grace-givers, empathetic feelers and sensitive souls can't help but feel the pull of this strong on the outside, yet soft on the inside kind of man.
We're the peace-makers, the harmonizers, the sympathizers, the empathizers, the understanding ones with a cup that seems to always be full for everyone else even as we become more and more depleted giving every part of ourselves following some unwritten "rules" about how we do relationships. And it's not just our relationships with men, it's our relationships with everyone!
But where we seek to understand so we can keep on being empathetic, keep on nurturing, we're not martyrs and we were never meant to be, so at some point the resentment and anger come into play and we find ourselves blowing up only so he can say triumphantly - see? I knew all along! You're not that good. You're not that perfect. You're just as bad as me!
This man doesn't seek to understand you. He doesn't have empathy for you. And where you always want to talk to make things better, to resolve problems as they arise, talking is the absolute last thing he wants to do!
He might cry with you over what HE'S been through, or he might even cry with you over something you've gone through that has nothing to do with the times he's made you cry. But if you ever try to make your pain about him or tell him how something he does has adversely affected you, he avoids, deflects and projects the very thing you're trying to explain to him about what he's doing to you, onto YOU!
You can't be with this man who avoids having real, meaningful, resolving conversations at all costs, without losing yourself in the process - and eventually him.
He avoids where you embrace. He avoids where you want to talk. He avoids where you want to have a real conversation and he just wants to blame.
Anything to avoid feeling bad, feeling the shame of who he knows he is deep down because of his programming that told him the same.
But with a man who doesn't take responsibility - you will take all the responsibility! With a man who doesn't say sorry - you will always be saying sorry! With a man who can't look within - that's all you do is look within! With a man who projects his own shortcomings or subconscious feelings of shame onto you - you'll let him and take it all on you even if you don't know why! With a man who only knows how to wield power in a relationship by hurling words, insults or threats at you - who yells, who mocks, who makes fun of everything light and gracious in you - you'll excuse his behaviors away even as you know there's nothing loving about any of those things!
Are you seeing why you're so perfect for HIM and yet why he's the absolute worst kind of guy for YOU?
When your world is conditioned/programmed to revolve around another person, when the only thing you know is taking the temperature of the room and that room is your partner, you can't have that person you've chosen be someone who denies what you feel, who tells you you're wrong, who is incapable of showing empathy for you.
You can't be with someone who doesn't meet you where you are with the real version of who HE is. You can't be with someone who isn't even aware of what goes on with you because he's more focused on himself and keeping himself from feeling pain or shame or bad that he isn't able to comprehend that you might feel that same pain and shame and bad ever day of your life even as he keeps projecting these things he keeps avoiding onto you!
You may see his behavior as a reason to go in deeper, a reason to seek to understand him more, to make him more of your world than you've already done because you see him - you love this man - like no one else has ever seen him before.
There are so many women who think they can do this. I meet them every day.
They honestly believe they're the exception with these avoidant kind of men who don't and won't and can't own their feelings until they get the professional help they need. Yes, you can inspire change in him. But you can't - and won't - be able to change him. No one has that power except him, and there's a wall of shame he has to confront first if he's to make any change at all.
You can't do that. No matter who you are. No matter how much love you have in your heart for him.
Every day my inbox is filled with heartbreaking letters from yet another woman who's discovered this for herself the hard way. Don't be that woman. Don't wait until you're too invested to do anything about it because the thought of starting over with someone new seems impossible. It's not. But as long as you're with this man who holds this challenge for you as a subconscious means to finally prove yourself worthy, it will seem that way.
We don't fix these men. We don't change them. You can inspire them by focusing on yourself for a change, by fixing what needs fixing in your own life so you never make fixing a wounded, broken man your project again.
No, girl. This isn't love with someone like this. It's pain, endless pain and more pain. And no, you don't ever have to feel this way again!
Love,
Jane
Are you involved with this type of man? Did you used to be? Share your story here in the comments. There's healing in knowing you're not alone!
They don’t know always yell and are not all loud and blaming and abusive. Sometimes it’s done in a very calm and quiet way where they seem to understand women so well but somehow it’s all turned back on us. And interesting that you mention an apology never comes from them for how they’ve made us feel. And also them saying things like “I told you from the very start” blah blah blah, fill in the blank, when how things are now is not what they put out there from the beginning.
We really are such a nurturers and it’s sad that at times that causes us to endure more than we should have to. It’s just also sad that it’s not until they’ve hooked us in that things come to light. That’s what makes it hard to walk away. The memory of the promises made and anticipations of what they put out there for the future, even if a short distance away, but never came to be. And like you said Jane, holding on just that little bit longer just to see if they will change and realize what they have right in front of them.
Jane,
This is the actual email from you, that I received on February 9th, that helped me make my decision. After reading it I forwarded it to two girlfriends with this note from me:
"I've decided to stop seeing [name withheld] again. It's just not fulfilling enough, and it's draining with all the over-thinking I end up doing. I need the energy I'm spending on thinking about this relationship...to use in my business and moving forward in my life.
I just got this email...and it so accurately describes the type of man he is. He's not a bad guy, but he has issues, and he doesn't communicate with empathy, and he's not my type of guy...and I need to let it all go!
Ugh...I hate this because I feel that I have to tell him, but he's not a good relationship communicator...so I have to keep it very simple and just say I tried but I don't think we're a good match. Anything more than that will most likely cause him to get very defensive.
I guess this is part of my growth! I'm having growing pains....lol!!!"
And then I did it. Just a few days prior to Valentine's Day I decided to tell him.
I told him that I felt we weren't on the same page and that I wanted to go deeper in a relationship. I told him that I adore him, and his little dog as well, but that I wanted to walk away while we were still friends.
I didn't blame, or shame , or bitch and moan. I knew that I needed to keep it simple and make it about "friendship" since his friends are everything to him.
He said "okay"...that's it. The conversation lasted exactly 2 minutes and 15 seconds.
He may have been in shock or blind sighted, but it doesn't matter. It was done, and I feel empowered because I gave myself the best Valentine's Day ever...the gift of self-care.
As a Life Coach, Speaker & Author of a book on healing after loss of love, I've helped many women to heal their heartache. So I recognize when someone has a gift for coaching or teaching...and you do!
Thanks so much for this powerful email Jane.
I'm going thru exactly what you been thru. Except for me it wasn't pleasant, everything I said, he made it my fault. It was like pouring gas on a fire. I can't control what comes out his mouth, which was very hurt full but I can control how I react. It hurts that's its over, but life goes on. The messed up part is, it was over a long time ago, when he stopped caring about me, he said he loves me but that only confused me more. Truth is I was hanging on to hope that he would see me as a good woman, someone who cared, like it was in the beginning but it didn't happen.
Cheri I totally understand. My guy would always deflect back to me, or get defensive and insinuate that it was my fault or it was my over-sensitivity, etc.
It was very subtle...but now that I reflect back it really wasn't all that subtle...I just made light of it because there were parts of the relationship that I enjoyed, and I wasn't ready to walk away. I actually had stopped making comments about things that bothered me anymore, so I could avoid conflict.
None of this was like me at all. Something about this type of personality seems to intimidate me, even though I'm the type of woman who doesn't seem to be intimidated by anything! Strange isn't it?
At any rate...what helped me was making a pro's and con's list. I didn't even make it prior to breaking up...I made it afterwards when I began feeling a bit sad and was missing the fun parts. As I wrote down the pro's...I noticed that each pro actually made me think of a con...then the con's just started flowing out. It was amazing, and there were so many con's, far more than I was even consciously aware of!
If I got a pang of sadness now, t would help me now to look at that list again. However...those pangs seem to be gone because making that list made me realize how I hadn't been caring enough for myself, and how much I'd been settling! So give it a try...and BRAVO to you for taking care of yourself!!!
You can get through this Cheri...and you deserve to have the right partner in your life, we both do.
The key is that we cannot settle for less than we know we want and deserve anymore!
So glad it helped, Deborah. And thank you for your kind words. I have no doubt you're going to get through this far better than you can yet imagine and find something far more beautiful on the other side of this heartbreak. Much love to you, kindred soul! ❤
Hi Jane,
I love the wisdom in your emails and yes I was that codependent woman in a 40 year relationship/marriage until he left me over 4 years ago. It has been my life’s biggest challenge to accept I can love a man but accept he doesn’t feel the same way about me. I know now my sense of love has to come from love of self and not others. I have had to crush many fears as I am dating a guy for 5 months who shows up so much better in relationship. He had counselling after a 3 year relationship ended. He also left a long term marriage 5 years ago. Thank you for all the wisdom you pass along.
My heart goes out to that 40 year you, Moraine. That acceptance is life's biggest challenge for those of us who struggle with a default codependency and understanding that - and accepting it is huge. I'm so glad you're out. As for this new relationship, a man who initiates counselling on his own is a really good sign. It's not everything, but it shows a path forward. So many fears in the unknown. Love that you've found a safe place for your heart here!
I’ve been reading your emails for years know I’ve found them truly helpful and inspiring,this one that I’ve just read really hits home for me I’m crying as I read it because I see so much of myself and the pain hurts because I’m scared to let go
As of yesterday I said I’ve had enough 7 years too long I can’t wait to feel better
Thank you Jane
How my heart goes out to you, Shirley. Take these days now as slowly as you need to. There's a lot to unpack when you're finally at your enough stage. Sending you so much love. Validating every one of your fears even for the freedom you're going to feel some day soon. It IS so scary to let go!
Reading this was like seeing my life written on paper!
Sending you so much love, Deloise. Hoping you can feel that love from here!
Wow jane, thank you. Your words are exactly! Point on, they spoke to me, I'm the one in the relationship who is always loving, giving, and getting less and less, just this past Sunday I tried reaching out to him, calling him numerous times, why? Because he lives alone and has heart problems. I was scared something might of happened, so after several hours of not reaching him, I reached out to his friend, please check on him, I'm worried I stated. At 10:30 pm I finally got a hold of him, and he said I was sleeping, and he mad that I bothered his friend, when I explained that I was worried about him cause he has serious health problems, he told me that I was overreacting and he's not a baby. I also got blamed for caring about him, and turned it into, your controlling, I need counseling, I'm feeling sad, hurt beyond belief, why isn't he saying thank you for caring about me?? Anyways once again I'm beaten down for loving someone. LADIES PAY ATTENTION, IM PORTANT, I ASKED HIM TO TELL ME HOW HE SHOWS ME LOVE!! AGAIN HE MADE IT ABOUT HIMSELF, TALKING ABOUT HIS TROUBLED PAST AND BLAMING EVERYONE BUT HIM FOR THE WAY HE IS... AGAIN I SAID DO YOU LOVE ME? OF COURSE, HE SAID, THEN AGAIN I ASKED HOW DO YOU SHOW ME LOVE?? HE FIDDLED AND TAPPED ON SOMETHING, NEVER GAVE ME ONE ANSWER.. NOT EVEN ONE. ILADIES PLEASE THINK ABOUT THIS, LOVE IS NOT JUST A WORD, ITS A ACTION OF SHOWING, I TOLD HIM WORDS ARE MEANINGLESS WITHOUT SHOWING LOVE. JANE THANK YOU FOR HELPING US BEAUTIFUL, BUT BROKEN WOMEN WHO LET A MAN DO THIS TO US. IM TIRED OF FEELING PAIN FOR LOVING SOMEONE WHO CLEARLY DOESNT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ME, WORDS ARE JUST WORDS WITHOUT ACTIONS WITH THEM, THANK YOU JANE, AGAIN YOUR AN ANGEL, GOD BLESS YOU
I'm so glad these words are helping you, Cheri. Of course you were worried about him - and it's so telling he was mad at you. You can only be so understanding before it becomes detrimental to your own sanity. You're not beaten down because you love someone - except when you're with someone so incapable of seeing you. See yourself first and find yourself again outside of him. You're absolutely right about the response when it's all about him and not about you. There has to be room for both of you! Much love to you.
Thank you jane, I took your advice and ended things with him last night, I'm scared, dont know if I will ever find love again, but I want too for a man who will love me back. But I know I can't living in this nightmare the one sided love, and when you stand up for yourself, they demean, insult you, its all your fault. But Jane you probably knew this, cause you mentioned I your previous letters. I should feel, relieved, happy, but instead I feel like I've been hit by a truck. Any advice?
That comes after, Cheri. First you've got to go through the going through!
I want to live a good life.I struggle to let things go.when I realize emotionally broken man loves differently I let him go I deserve better than him. An emotionally damaged man can also love.in fact he have more love to offer than any other man you will ever meet.He is just being extra careful with the people he lets into his life.And that is what makes him so special I agree we can’t change them when they are broken what the greatest happiness of life is the conviction that we are love for ourselves or rather loved in spite of ourselves”. I wish guys who can’t figure it out what is wrong would find a coach for some help.
Thank you Jane.
I wish that, too, Olive. The more we raise the bar on the behavior we accept, the more hope I have for this. You're a wise woman, Olive!
Olive I read your letter and it was good, emotionally damaged men cannot give you the love you deserve, you crave, I learned this the hard way. I've been in a relationship with an emotionally damaged man, I showed him love, support, compainship, loyalty, while getting nothing in return, I mean no support for when I had problems, everything was always about him, and if I tried to tell about my bad day, he'd ignore me and talk about him, he constantly critized me for everything I did or said, although he was the hurling insults. I ended things with him, and feel like I've been hit by a truck because he broke me. In the beginning, everything was so wonderfull, he wasn't allways like that. I pray things will get better.
This is my exact story. I’ve been with him 38 years. Not so bad to leave but I’m drained trying to please. He is self centred but he can be nice when he wants to. Deep down I have the feeling he has a mean streak. I have been good for him as I think I do make him see how he should treat me. But when I bring up things that hurt me he turns it around about what he’s going through. I haven’t been able to leave. When he suspects I’ve had enough he brings flowers and does nice things until the next time. Nothing physical just stuff like telling me I’m too sensitive, that’s not what he meant or he was only kidding. So what kind of man should I be with? Won’t I just pick another one who is the same? I am becoming aware and calling him out on some things but it makes for a lot of tension.
Please describe the kind of man I should look for in a post!
Lori, I'm cheri, I'm 56 years old and have dealing with these kind of men myself, I'm currently in a relationship like you, where I do everything and get nothing. Then one day it came to me an answer, my boyfriend lane he always tells me he loves me which is why I hung around, hoping my love would be enough for him to change, anyways, I said to him lane you love me right? He said of course, then I said, how do you show me you love? And again he made it about himself, his past, the people who wronged him, and I said with per distance how do you show me love?? Words are cheap, love is only a word without an action. He couldn8t give me one answer. Lori if he is breaking you, and you feel sadness, things will be wonderfull but allways go back to the same. Love yourself enough to walk away, love is supposed lift you up not emotionally, mentally drain you.. God bless you lori
I'm 58 and just got out of a 9 year relationship that Jane described in detail. I had no more to give - but at that point, it hardened me and I just walked away and was actually relieved that I didn't have to work so hard for his love that was always just out of reach. I started reading books, listening to podcasts, etc. Not to figure out anything about him, but to look inward and see why I was accepting of this for so long. So much made sense in my search. I am not the person that walked out of that relationship anymore. But I don't punish myself for staying in it, because I learned so much about myself and what the relationship was giving me that I wasn't giving myself. I feel an inner peace and have found the person that makes me so happy and content - and that is myself. Any relationship that I have from here on out, will be balanced and full of love. Only when you love yourself, can you give love and accept love that is healthy. Otherwise, it is you looking for your missing pieces in someone else who is missing pieces and they are usually the same missing pieces so neither can give what the other needs to make them complete. I promise you, when you step back from it - and do the work on loving yourself - you will be amazed at what you find!
Hi Maggie! I’ve just walked away from a relationship like the one Jane & you describe. I’m doing the same thing you’re doing. Can you provide me any suggestions on things to read, listen to, watch? Theresa lot out there & it’s overwhelming. Maybe you ran across some resources that helped you, that may help us. I would greatly appreciate it!
Hi Michelle!
Prior to my walking away, I read Men Who Can't Love by Steven Carter. It was my wake up call - it explained so much and made me understand that no matter what I did to get his love, it would never work. And that book started my journey. I then read Attached by Amir Levine to try to understand my attachment style and why. Which led me to inner reflection and I found the book The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer - so many Ahaa moments with this book. I also read The Seat of the Soul which dug deeper and you have to be ready for this kind of soul searching. If you start to read it and it doesn't make sense, you aren't ready for it yet. I recently read The Wisdom of Sundays - Oprah Winfrey. I listen to alot of her spiritual podcasts 🙂 And I joined Tik Tok - you can pick categories that are of interest when you sign up. I picked spiritual, dance, diy, and lots of farm animals... lol I got away from Facebook as it was way too political and negative. Tik Tok makes me smile and laugh every day with so many people lifting you up with inspiring stories and videos. And just saying I love you - have a great day! I turn on my playlist (70's funk) and dance around the house - it's something I love! Through my whole journey - Jane would send e-mails that I swore were my story and questioned how she knew. All other relationship sites were into playing games, do this and do that to make them love you. Jane always said to look within, love yourself first. She knows what we all need to do to be happy - she got me in the right mindset to start the search and get to where I am today. I pray your journey to love, freedom in letting go, and peace of mind is as healing as mine. This is how I did it - please keep us posted on how you did it when you get there! You have all of us here to cheer you on!
Thank you.. I need this too!! I am still so hurt and upset that he is not the man he used to be and I am unable to express any feelings at all during relationship. But sometimes he could be so charming and loving which make me question if it is me who make him being like that, or is it him. But it doesn't matter because I will never get the answer. He cannot love me the way I do to him. I quit Facebook yesterday and felt anxious but this must be the first step for healing. Attachment is also a good book!
I agree Jane is the only one with so insights and love. Genuine care not playing games like love coaches out there.
Aw, thank you, Mildly. I care so much! I don't want anyone to go through this kind of pain - or any kind of pain at all. This world is far too cruel to have anyone else preying on you. So much love to you - I've never forgotten you! 🙂
Thanks Maggie! I will definitely write down & look into the things you suggested. They make sense! I don’t know anyone else’s story, but mine has been a lifelong struggle w/ addiction (in MANY forms) & mental health issues. Been in therapy for 25 yrs. No change. Probably my 3 diagnosed Cluster C personality disorders (the anxious cluster). I’ve been successful in life cause I learned how to compensate, but really it was a mess. Now I run into what I now know is a narcissist (probably NPD w/ co-occurring BiPolar). Nightmare! And I’m literally addicted. That’s their specialty. So I’ve made changes, stood my ground on some very important things, but also excused way to much. Not anymore. I’m looking for the right kind of help now for me, & I think it’s gonna come from multiple places (people who specialize in these areas). Jane’s program & your advice is so right on. One day it may be something I can use to help me. And I may choose to use it now. Everyday I learn more & realize more. I’m just trying to find that support right now for the immediate addiction of choice. I’ve been no contact for (well no response for 11 days), & there are times it’s really hard...even though I know better. Ok, not sure if this made any sense. But again, thank you for the helpful resources & suggested behaviors! I am gonna take your Facebook/Tic Tok suggestion into consideration. (But I’ve found a lot of very helpful support through that channel too!!!)
Oh Maggie, I'm so glad you're here and my emails and so many other things are helping you. You're onto something with immersing yourself in all the things and people and places that love you and support you and lift you up. It's all these things! Creating a whole new supportive environment of you, of your dreams, of all that you are and all that you offer is the gateway to freeing yourself, to getting away from men like these, and coming forth in your own shining power for a change. Sending you so much love!
Maggie,
What you said about the missing pieces from both sides is spot on! It resonates with my current 2 year relationship big time. I hate it but the truth hurts! I have read and reread those few sentences. He’s a widow and I’m a divorcée. Both have deep battle wounds. He is a great man but shuts down when what is most important is communicating! I hurt pretty badly this past Sunday as he crossed a line (first time) by cursing and raising his voice. I shut that down by leaving bc I knew it would just escalate. I drew a line in the sand and said the ball is in your court! I will not be talked to like that and told him to think hard about what I meant to him. I won’t be disrespected like that. Like everyone on this blog...we deserve peace and happiness! If this is the end, I won’t be happy but I also have to be strong and have enough respect for myself to walk away. And by the way...I will NEVER date a widow again. After talking to a few of his close friends I found out that she didn’t walk on water like he dotes about! That pedestal always goes miles past where it should be when someone passes away!
Hi Dana,
You will learn a lot from how he responds to your boundary. If there is no apology or if he doesn't respond - you have your answer on what you meant to him. If things don't work out and you find yourself alone, please take the time to look inward and see what is missing in you that you were trying to get from him. It really takes a lot of deep soul searching, but when you get it... it is life changing. And when I say soul search.... I don't mean try to find out why he was wrong and what you can do to make him love you.... don't make it about him at all... it is about you, find out what you were looking for in him and heal that - give that to yourself! You get to a place that gives you peace of mind and that ...my dear friend is love of self!
It is funny that you mention that you will never date a widow.... I am a widow..lol I don't know how long he has been a widow - I was a widow of 5 years before I let someone in. I never idolized my late husband to my guy as I thought that would be disrespectful to him. I think dating a widow would be easier than a divorced person as you are constantly dealing with the ex in the relationship. I guess your argument might be that dealing with a ghost is just as hard. My point here is that not every widow will be like the one from your past and not every divorcee will be like the one that I had in my life. No two people are the same and we all have triggers that get us when something happens that brings up a bad experience of our past. This is something else I had to work on.... when things happen that bring up a triggered emotion from the past, I would immediately tense up and go back to the emotion I felt from my past, even though it had no relevance to the current situation. Now, I recognize what is happening immediately and am able to stop it before it creates a story in my head that is not true.
I hope that you get to a place of peace of mind Dana. It truly is so freeing.
Love,
Maggie
Look for a friend who you're attracted to, Lori. That's the most important thing. You don't want just flowers and other surface displays of affection - you want real, consistent behavior over time that says you've got a guy who cares about you and is open to communicating directly with you about things that matter to you. Actions, not words. And not the fluff kind, the real kind! I'm sure you've been good for him - we've got to raise the bar on what it means to be good for you, too!
Too familiar, Jane, and your timing, as always is perfect.
I believe the avoidant attachment style (usually mixed/messed up with anxious) is usually the toxic narcissist.
Now, firstly, we all have narcissistic traits and only a trained professional can diagnose someone with NPD (not done until 18+ despite it starting in childhood or psychopathy which, as I understand it, is something genetic from birth usually).
Those of us who have survived and are now warriors not victims of real, clinically diagnosed narcissism and continuously do the work to manage its harmful effects that will affect us but not prevent us from living our best lives and being our new authentic selves have had to deal with the immature grown boy in a man's body or, even worse as proven in studies based upon how the narcissism is manifested, grown girl in a woman's body.
In the attached link, Dr. Les Carter, psychotherapist, author, instructor, and host of Surviving Narcissism on YouTube as well as his own, personal channel and has a twin brother in the same line of work with the FBI, explains the deflection, distraction, and projection narcissists use on their supply/objects. (We are not subjects to them only objects like a toy or other "thing" for them to love bomb, devalue, discard and, if they so choose and have done enough trauma bonding on an insecure, desperate feeling soul, hoover later while they work on grooming new supply because they cannot be without rinse and repeat fuel.)
Dr. Ramani, Dr. Carmen Bryant, and Dr. Helen Saddler are other invaluable sources.
I offer this link only because it is credible. If you do not wish to post this, I leave it to your discretion as it is your site but ask that, at minimum, you review it yourself, Jane, and see what you think and how Dr. Carter may be able to team up and help all of us.
Respectfully I thank and love you always, Jane.
https://youtu.be/HgYrGjtp82g
Hi Amanda! Wow! I’m so glad you posted. I just left my boyfriend (I think for the 5th time), as now I know he’s a narcissist. Or that is what I strongly suspect, as he demonstrates all 9 traits. And he uses all the narc playbook tactic/games. While I’ve blocked him, he can still manage to reach me. But I’ve not responded/seen/spoken to with past 10 days. But he is lovebombing me, & his efforts are lame. He thinks he’s saying all the right things, but each attempt, word, image, vmail, etc. that he sends my way is just his way of hooking me back in. Hollow promises. My reality was a fantasy. Smoke & mirrors. I told him what I thought he was, & he’s clearly made no effort to change (per his lame lovebombing attempts). So, either he thinks I’m a pushover, he’s not very clever or original, or he just doesn’t want to put in too much effort (esp w/ no guarantee) ... or it’s all of this.
If trauma bonding is real, and experts say it is. I sure have it. He crosses one boundary after the next, & I keep going back b/c I have/had hope, believed someone couldn’t be so cruel & uncaring & selfish ... that they really wanted to have the power to control everything about me ... and I mean everything. And I guess I don’t want to give up on that fantasy ... letting that go. But the fantasy in reality, when I look at the whole, & also dissect the pieces was a twisted nightmare.
Clearly I need help, & I immediately began looking for it & educating myself. Trying to break myself free. But there were times I was w/ him where I really felt like I was high on some drug ... so content & euphoric ... my whole body & mind would relax to a point where I would drift away sleep (even stopped taking my meds cause I didn’t feel depressed ... after being on some form for 23 yrs but nothing worked ... he though worked ... I wasn’t depressed when I was w/ him ... I think this says something about neurochemistry). But high anxiety definitely ruled most all the time. Until I got that fix. Cycle repeating.
While the emotional/psychological abuse was bad, there were 2 times where he physically abused me. Second time, I called the cops & left him. Both times we were drinking heavily. So clearly I told him we both have serious issues & need professional help. I haven’t had anything to drink since that 2nd incident & am in recovery. But he even tries to take that away from me too. I did not & will not let anyone do that.
So, I have watched some of Dr. Carter’s videos. Very insightful...and scary. I’ve heard of some of the other’s you mentioned.
I thank Jane for allowing your post to remain. It could save someone from getting hurt or even worse. I’m unsure if the man Jane describes is the level of a narcissist or NPD. To me, it seems like a range where men/women will fall. The NPD is the extreme to the right.
However, I don’t ever want to be w/ the man Jane describes or anyone who has unhealthy narcissist behaviors (especially NPDs!!!).
Education & awareness I think is critical.
So thank you Amanda & Jane!
Any further info Amanda or Jane can provide is greatly appreciated.
And I hope nobody thinks my response was inappropriate. Just sharing my story cause it seemed similar to Amanda’s.
This is exactly what I've discovered in my practice and experience, Michelle, and it's why I've left Amanda's link here. Because the way we've raised men - and essentially boys - in our culture, makes many of these qualities part of most men. Depending on where they fall on the spectrum, and factors like personality, education, life experience, traveling, siblings as females, people they've allowed in, etc. most men are not simply on either extremes of narcissism as a psychological/pathological disorder, but can be found somewhere in between.
Labeling is useful in helping us understand that something like narcissism is real and the way we're being treated is real - especially for those of us who tend to excuse or understand these men to the detriment of ourselves, but labeling everyone as a narcissist can deprive us of an opportunity to better understand how human men are, and in our hurry to diagnose a situation, we can miss that point.
I'm so glad you shared your story - we need to share more in safe places when we find them - not less! Much love to you, girl!
This is exactly him. And that is exactly me. In every words. It hurts my soul and I am so heartbroken I don't know how to move on. Its like my sense of self had disappeared in this dynamic for 2 years. In my mind intellectually I know what to do. But my heart keeps hanging on the past memories when he showed so much potentials. And I am jealous of his future partners. What if he will be open and emotionally available, be so loving with them, then it will proof that I am wrong for him and that maybe he is right, that I am too much too paranoia and crazy.
Please look up trauma bonding, Stokholm Syndrome, and know that your insecurities were studied by him so he knows just when to lean in to bread crumb you so you take his bait and get hooked all over again and again and again between the zombieing and wish he'd just ghost so you could work on your personal growth in your season of singleness gift.
It's a game. You are a toy. Refuse to play in his sandbox and go no contact and stop following social media or you will stay stuck, used and abused. By not playing his game you will trigger HIS abandonment issues and he will either wear you down to win his game then leave for a new playmate until they figure him out or he gets bored and goes back to his list of old FWBs until he grooms someone new (tougher during a pandemic but even more rampant and, I think, dangerous for those who use those online dating sites as the clinical professionals and several top relationship coaches say and who understand it is a business for dividend shareholders who need failures to get people to keep going back to the site versus in-person, non-LDR, real interactions based upon a more realistic and authentic connection that can be paced and based on friendship first.)
Queens don't do this. Queens are not victims or hold that mentality for long if at all. A princess looking for Prince Charming would but a Queen needs a King who has character and a King is looking for a Queen he can respect because she is secure in a real not arrogant way.
I heard an interesting analogy the other day that in the game of chess the King is the most powerful but he will always protect the Queen because she can move anywhere to protect the King and is placed in the middle, first rank, right next to the King. (She is not a side chick or backburner option.)
We will never get a King if we are too busy playing with little boys masquerading as men or accepting a place off to the side like one of his many pawns (whether we know they have chosen to exist or not).
You cannot control him, other desperate, vulnerable, or ignorant (unaware) women. You can ONLY control yourself. If you need help with that, then may I suggest that you look up counselling help Better Help which A LOT of therapists like Dr. Carmen Bryant offer discount codes for, mymentor.life, or someone through your employee assistance program, if you have one, or a community service like United Way then work with a trusted coach like Jane whose heart and trained experience can help you heal after the counselling.
You have to TAKE YOUR POWER BACK and FOCUS ON GOD (or whomever you believe in), YOUR PAIN, YOUR PASSION, AND THEN YOUR PURPOSE will come shining through. Right now, it sounds like you are giving up too much valuable rent space in your body to an undeserving, manipulative spirit who can't even run his own life so how can he possibly handle yours with care? He can't but YOU CAN!
I wish you well, dear one. 🙏✝💛
Amanda - Me again 😉 Awesome reply! You helped me feel stronger, more determined. I have to imagine him as that toddler in a sandbox. That toddler who’s sweet & loving towards me when he gets what he wants. But horrible & evil when he doesn’t. And I’m not his mommy, so I don’t need to soothe & fix those pieces of himself that as an adult he needs to take responsibility for. The sicko even liked slowly tearing off the tips of my nails & then playing w/ them. He couldn’t do it to himself anymore cause they were too short. I told him the only reason I was letting him do it was cause I’m not all that concerned w/ my nails, & I understood that it was a way to quell anxiety (I did it as a kid). But it would hurt sometime cause he’d tear too low & I’d say stop it & pull away. And the big baby would say oh come on it doesn’t hurt that bad. And I said yes it certainly does. Then he’d pout & said I didn’t care! Oh my God?! Sick! So either he really was doing it cause of his anxiety & he didn’t care if it hurt me or he made the whole thing up to see how far I’d allow him to go. Just an example of how sick this whole dynamic can be.
Yes I have loved and still love a man like that. He never wants to have a heart to heart conversation. He always says everything is fine. Well it wasn't he left me and moved in with another woman. He made me think everything was ok up to the day he left. I ask him numerous times in the last few months if everything was good with him and told him I'm there for him If he wanted to talk. He said everything is fine. Well a few days before christmas he left me. No clue nor reason. He said his usual I love you, kissed me, and said he would see me after while. Well that was 2 months ago. He won't give me a reason. He won't even talk about it. How can I get him to open up and give me the answers I need?