Our letter this week comes from Claire. She's dating a guy who is asking her to be patient with him because he's not ready for more of a relationship. Sound familiar?
Here's what she wrote:
Hi Jane,
In your video, you mention maintaining a playful distance.. what does that look like?
I'm working on my own triggers & have been guilty of chasing before. (too much masculine energy !)
Dating a new guy(someone I met years ago) but he's in a transition phase after a toxic relationship. He asked me to be patient. Not my strongest attribute.
Warm regards,
Claire
My Response:
Welcome to our community, Claire! I'm so glad you found your way here.
I'm going to get to your question about playful distance in a moment, but first I want to talk about something else you brought up here - patience.
Very few of us would describe our strongest attribute as patience, but there's something you need to know about when it's a good thing to work on your patience with a guy who asks you to be, and when it's actually a very unhealthy thing to expect of yourself.
You need to understand the difference between the two.
When someone says he's in a "transition phase" after a toxic relationship, the first thing you need to do is understand that this is a guy who, for whatever reason, was involved in a toxic relationship.
That alone means he's going to require some special handling.
No matter how healthy someone seems on the surface, someone who finds himself in an unhealthy, toxic relationship usually attracts that relationship - and that person who contributed to the toxicity - because of a relationship dynamic that initially worked for one or both of them.
And while it's good he's no longer in it - for him and for anyone he's going to date because toxic relationships don't get better over time, there are some things to watch out for.
First, is this "patience" he's asking of you because he's creating some emotional, physical or mental space so he can stay in control of the relationship, keep things from going to fast, and generally keep a grip on his independence because he fears being drawn into a similar relationship?
Since this is almost always the case, you're going to need something of a timeline of how long you're going to be patient with him, before he figures out who he is or what he's going to do about a relationship with you.
Since you didn't mention if he gave you an idea of how much time he's going to be looking for you to be patient with him, I'm assuming he didn't and that this was just a general statement of what he needs from you right now.
This is particularly true if you're a go-getter (nothing wrong with that!).
But I'm sure he's picked up on this and doesn't want you to get ahead of him and assume you're further along in this new relationship than you are. Sounds like that's a whole lot more pressure than he's looking for at this time.
Which brings me to my second thing to watch out for.
How patient are you? This matters because it sounds like you're on two different pages here. You don't want to be patient; you want him to know exactly what he wants right now. And he needs you to be patient indefinitely and is putting this marker here on your relationship right from the start.
Most of the time, this "be patient with me" stage isn't a quick thing, but more of an indefinite marker that makes it easier for him to pull the "I'm still not ready; remember I told you to be patient with me?" card anytime your impatience comes into play and you want to check in with him to see where he's at.
If you're not being honest with yourself about how long you can wait for this guy to figure out how long it takes him to get over the fact he came from a previous toxic relationship and won't know another kind unless he's willing to try out another relationship to see what else is possible, you're setting yourself up for your own possibly toxic non-relationship/relationship here with him.
So be honest with yourself. How long can you be patient for?
Set a timeline for yourself - make it realistic and don't share it with him because that only adds to his pressure, and then when that time comes up, be honest with yourself to see if anything has changed.
If it has, good. That's progress and shows he's got some real potential here. But if nothing's changed, think twice about whether you want to do another round of patience with him.
The last thing you want is someone holding all the power in a relationship while you walk on eggshells making sure you're not saying or doing too much or coming on too strong, lest you scare him away. Ask any woman on here in that indefinite "patience" kind of relationship and she'll tell you that's not a relationship you ever want to get started in!
Now back to maintaining a playful distance. What does that look like?
It's exactly what's needed here if you want to give this a little time to see what happens because you really do think this could be the start of something good with him if you can give him a little space right now.
Playful distance looks like you carrying on with your own life, maintaining a sense of detachment, remembering that even if you've known this guy for years, if he's going to be needing more space than you are indefinitely, or if you're never going to be on the same page when it comes to what you both want - and can handle - you need a lot more information from him.
Think of him as a friend you're attracted to for now, but someone you'll need to fill in some more of the missing pieces of the puzzle with. Can you keep your irritation or annoyance in check at how long this might be taking by reminding yourself that it's your choice to even consider being involved with a guy like this?
Can you give yourself your power back by asking yourself every day if you still want to choose to be patient with him today?
Can you keep your resentment from building up inside so that you're not going to throw in some snide remark or blow up at him in frustration at the point where you can't hold it in anymore?
You're the one doing the choosing here, Claire. You've got your new "I'm doing the choosing" mindset and yes, you're choosing him today and every day you decide he's worth it to you to put on your alter-ego and practice more of that patience that's so not easy for you!
We all see you there, girl.
Playful distance looks like you still being yourself with him. Still enjoying his company, still liking getting to know him. Still bringing to the relationship all the qualities you bring without feeling resentment that you might be doing all this for nothing when nothing changes with him.
And it looks like you being playful in your approach to him. Not heavy to add to the pressure, but not fake where you're feigning that everything's okay when it's not on your end. You don't give him grief for being honest with you about where he's at. You accept him where he's at.
Can you do that, Claire? Because that's what he's asking you to do when he asks you to be patient with him. If you can't, don't get one step further here with him. If you can, now you know what he's asking of you.
I hope this helps. Let me know if you need me to explain any of this more for you!
Love,
Jane
PS What do you think Claire should do in this situation? Does it sound familiar to you? Share your similar story or pass along some words of advice for Claire in the comments!
I've worked with Jane for years. Thank God I've grown so much - thank you Jane. Looking back on my personal experiences, this "needing space" dog and pony show was really a ruse. Typically used for things such as playing the field and keeping options open, or emotionally unavailable, or pathologically dangerous men trying to utilize gaslighting to make it seems like it's you, or any combination of the aforementioned. Yes, I have been through a lot and been graced with many learning opportunities! From where I stand today, I see My Life as Precious. Such a Gift. ...I hope it's not too late and that I haven't completely wasted my Gift of Life. So, if a guy like this came way now, I'd ask myself if this guy can, AND WILL, be there if and WHEN it really counts? I mean: REALLY COUNTS. So many things can happen in our day to day lives. For me, I need a MAN. One who is strong and confident. One whom I wouldn't be afraid to partner up with because I'd always be worrying if he has what it takes to show up in Life. Instead, I would know: My Man is strong and capable. He's an adult and I can trust him to share in my Gift of Life. How do I know these are real expectations and not pie in the sky ideations? Because I'm that woman. Strong, capable, sure footed, solid, and confident.
Love this response!!
And reminds me of something my dad once said about a guy who always acted interested (and we would spend time together as friends) but he would never officially ask me out, but he would say things about how alike we are, how great together we are, AND how others say they bet we will be married in 5 years:
if he acts like this now, how will he act during emergencies together or if you got really sick? You want someone who knows their mind now and can act on it.
Hints and Promises about later rarely become reality.
Exactly, EC. Wise dad you have!
You go, Phoenix!!! Of course this one resonated so much with you with everything you've been through. You ARE that woman! You bring me to tears reading this. Never too late, girl! So much love to you!
ThIS IS IN REFERENCE TO CLAIRE, CLAIRE I WAS IN A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP AND ITS HARD, IT BREAKS YOU EMOTIONALLY, MENTALLY, I SAY GIVE THIS A GUY A CHANCE. THE FACT HE WAS HONEST WITH YOU. FOR A GUY TAKES GUTS. I AM DATING SOMEONE NEW AS WELL, AND HAD ASKED MY NEW GUY, TO BE PATIENT AS WELL, WHY, CAUSE I NEED TO HEAL, I NEED TO DO THAT, SO I CAN START A NEW RELATIONSHIP WITH A HEALTHY MINDSET, TO TRUST AGAIN, TO LOVE AGAIN, ITS SCARY WHEN YOUVE BEEN HURT DEEPLY, SO GIVE HIM TIME, HE COULD TURN OUT TO BE A GREAT GUY, HE PROBABLY LOVED HER AND SHE TOYED WITH HIS HEART EMOTIONS, DONT GIVE UP JUST YET, HE WILL MEET YOU WHERE YOUR AT, WHEN HES HEALED. GOOD LUCK CLAIRE
This is a tough one. I'm not patient either. However, I've also been the one on the other side asking for patience. And you will get further if you do what he asks. If he doesn't recognize your efforts, then time to move on. I guess at this point, do you like him enough to try. I believe all relationships require patience...it never really goes away. Something I learned too late with my marriage. But it has to be recognized...you need your cup refilled do to speak.
Thank you Jane, great response in original article.
Glad it resonated with you too, Ann! Another part of our past conditioning - we're oh so patient, or feel bad/guilty/ashamed when we're not and "should" be. Who says this is a good thing? Who are "they" and does it serve them or you? Sometimes there's a really good reason you're not so patient - if you can just trust this part of yourself to know!
I'm not sure who "they" are...mothers, grandmothers, even fathers, or society in general? People who want the best for us, but don't know us deep down. Those who see men and women in traditional roles.
I agree with Phoenix about wanting a man to be there in times of need. That was my whole soapbox for why I got divorced. I can go party with anyone anytime, but a true partner is there for you. That said, sometimes people need a chance to prove it....however, proof is the magic word here.
So how much time do we give? I think that is a very individual basis.
Regardless, I learned never to lose myself in a person again. Stand tall, stand your ground, be yourself. Be by yourself if you have to. Everything balances out in life. Have faith.
I would only give him ten minutes. And then move on with my life with someone new!
Cheers! Your life matters.
Most times it is best to give someone a lot of space after they get out of a relationship, especially if it was a toxic one or if they are married. They need time to go through all the stages /heal/be strong again and find their self again, the one who exists outside of any relationship. Can’t really do all that and definitely can’t do that well or as “quick” as it usually could be if they back in another beginning of a relationship or testing the waters.
I would back off to a friend level, and be busy with your life AND date someone else. Check in again after 7-9 months, but realize that might need to check in again after another several months after that. (By that point, you will be very glad that you continued on with your life in the meantime!!).
Honestly, it can take guys up to 2 years to really be open to another relationship after something toxic or a marriage.
Otherwise, you risk being dragged on forever, getting into a toxic pattern, or he suddenly needs to be totally free /find himself/etc before committing (because you were just the post-relationship comfort person or brief passionate rebound) .
Too late! I’m sorry I wasn’t clear! I’ve moved in with him in January and he’s committed but still caught up in the previous toxic relationship! Doesn’t want to abandon and remain friends but it creates havoc because she keeps calling at all hours of the day! I’ve made a healthy boundary to put an end to it! Stay tuned!
I've only seen this work if HE can set boundaries with her, Sarah. It's great that you've made a healthy boundary around this, but if it doesn't come from him to her, she's not going to take it seriously. Keep us posted!
I’m in a similar situation. He came out of toxic relationship and I came out of a long term relationship that was going nowhere. We’ve known each other for years, but one day almost a year ago, it was like I got struck my lightening when we were talking. We’ve dated on and off since. Currently living together for almost 2 months. I keep a healthy distance, stay playful and do my own thing. I don’t make demands or nag or do passive aggressive things to get his attention. I give advice when he asks, answer questions when he asks, but otherwise I let him come to me. It seems to be working. The only thing that had bothered me is this... One night we’re sitting listening to music and talking. Being silly really and out of nowhere he says “you scare me”. WTH does that mean? I asked him and he just smiled and shook his head. It’s almost like learning a foreign language. One day I think I’m getting it and the next I feel like I’m back at square one.
It means he loves the idea of being with a woman who's the closest he's ever come to giving him reason to settle down, Shannon, but it's scaring him half to death and that's why this is a problem! If he's just being dramatic but actually has a plan to counter his fears, great. But if he doesn't, if he's just going to stay in the "you scare me" phase like I've seen too many men do with a woman as perfect as you for him while you wait out his fears and he never does anything about them except remain this emotionally elusive, deep, mysterious man, it's going to cost you more than just learning a foreign language.
But the even bigger red flag I'm seeing is what this is doing to you that you feel like one day you think you're getting it and the next you feel like you're back at square one.
What's there to get about him? Why is there something to get at all? Why do you have to spend your time and energy trying to read him like a foreign language so you can be with him?
And that you can be back at square one the next day - honestly, Shannon, I hope this guy is worth something special to you because what you're describing here I've seen too many times in the woman I coach and we never want to see it until it's too late.
I've spent too much of my life giving men the benefit of the doubt when they say things like "you're as sexy as hell", or "you scare the s**t out of me" only to never follow through with it meaning anything more than just dramatic words that made them sound mysterious and aloof.
There's a reason why a guy doesn't want to be known. And it's not a good one.
Especially for someone with as gorgeous a heart as it sounds like yours is who's ready to prove she's up for the challenge. That's not a good thing here. We don't want men who challenge us around how they feel about us. We want men who want to make sure you know!
Thank you for replying. This is a sensitive relationship to start with since I’m so close to his family already. And should we break it off again, we’ll still see each other quite a bit. And I just confirmed he is bipolar after talking to his 26 yr old son the other night. And I can honestly say I’ve never felt this strongly about a man in my life. Over the last week or so, I’ve been seeing changes in his behavior. As in he’s more engaged in conversations and asking more questions about me. And he’s taking a more active roll around the house. Cleaning, cooking etc. so whatever he’s been struggling with, he seems to have made up his mind. We’ll see. I’ll give it a little more time.
The family comment reminded me of something a former boyfriend’s sister in law said to me once.
This boyfriend had mental health and other issues as well. She was delicately trying to suggest to me that it might be better to move on.
I said, but I love his family and you as well; his family is so nice!!
She said: “there will be other nice families.”
Fast forward 15 years later and we randomly ran into each other again: I thanked her!
She was right, I’d met and been welcomed by other nice families and was now very happily married to someone much more stable/solid with an amazing family.
I have no patience but when you truly found the man of your dreams you seem to find it! I have never used so much patience in my life! I’ve made a healthy boundary of a year! Especially because I’ve witnessed the toxicity of the last relationship! I pray after a year I’ll be strong enough to run! I’m 56 years old and reconnected with the first boy who kissed me! I’ve told him that he’s my first and my last! If it doesn’t work, I’ll never fall in love again! lol! Talk about pressure! Buts it’s true! I also know that I need to work on my patience to get what I want!
Here’s the story...reconnected in fb 2 1/2 years ago...last June invited me for a week in July...moved from Montréal to West palm beach, Florida to move into my own apt in September to see where it goes...January I move in...
Any advice is helpful and welcomed here!! Sometimes I have trouble seeing clearly when you wear rose colored glasses!
I don’t see any good coming from here. Being single is great and much better than feeling longing or less than or frustrated bc you are being strung along. It sucks to be in that situation and if you don’t mind, that’s one thing, and can be “playful” bc it doesn’t bother you but if it does, you deserve better. Sounds like this isn’t a good situation.
The big question - does it bother you? And do you even know? Thanks, D!
I personally think boundaries need to be set here or this can go on forever. Only time will tell and whilst you are playing the waiting game, enjoy and just be your authentic self. BUT continue to monitor the situation without his knowledge of course. If nothing changes as Jane said, you need to run for the hills. Be strong and remain gorgeous. xxx
Always back to the same place, Angie - you nailed it here. Boundaries!